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	<title>Comments on: Can McCain Lead a Late Rally?</title>
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	<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Donklephant &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Language of Victory and Defeat</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-421001</link>
		<dc:creator>Donklephant &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Language of Victory and Defeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-421001</guid>
		<description>[...] in the comments to a post about John McCainâ€™s chances at victory, there was a debate about what does and does not qualify as a rout. To avoid further linguistic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in the comments to a post about John McCainâ€™s chances at victory, there was a debate about what does and does not qualify as a rout. To avoid further linguistic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420974</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 05:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420974</guid>
		<description>When the AP poll has the race in a dead heat, while the latest poll conducted by Fox News - &lt;b&gt;Fox News!&lt;/b&gt; - shows &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,443343,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Obama with a huge lead&lt;/a&gt;, that&#039;s my cue to start ignoring the polls - all of them - as entirely untrustworthy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the AP poll has the race in a dead heat, while the latest poll conducted by Fox News &#8211; <b>Fox News!</b> &#8211; shows <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,443343,00.html" rel="nofollow">Obama with a huge lead</a>, that&#8217;s my cue to start ignoring the polls &#8211; all of them &#8211; as entirely untrustworthy.</p>
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		<title>By: patrikios</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420973</link>
		<dc:creator>patrikios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 05:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420973</guid>
		<description>Here are the facts about the alleged Odinga connection (a theme of conspiracy theorist Jerome Corsi&#039;s book about Obama)

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/corsis_dull_hatchet.html

&quot;A frequent Corsi tactic is to point to some link between Obama and various unsavory persons and to imply that Obama somehow shares in their unsavoriness. He devotes an entire chapter to violent uprisings in Kenya following a disputed presidential election in 2007. The link to Obama? During a visit to Kenya in 2006, Obama and his wife, Michelle, arranged to take an AIDS test to publicly demonstrate the test&#039;s safety. While there, Obama spoke to the assembled crowd. Raila Odinga, one of the two candidates running for president, was on the stage when Obama spoke. Corsi concludes that the event constituted an endorsement of Odinga. He goes on to attribute all the violence in Kenya to an elaborate Odinga plot.

Corsi, however, offers no evidence that Obama actually did endorse Odinga. In fact, MSNBC reported that during that same trip, Obama also met with Mwai Kibaki, who was Odinga&#039;s opponent in that election, as well as with opposition leader Uhuru Kenyatta. And Human Rights Watch reported that both Odinga and Kibaki (or their supporters, anyway) had a hand in the violence that followed the election.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are the facts about the alleged Odinga connection (a theme of conspiracy theorist Jerome Corsi&#8217;s book about Obama)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/corsis_dull_hatchet.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/corsis_dull_hatchet.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;A frequent Corsi tactic is to point to some link between Obama and various unsavory persons and to imply that Obama somehow shares in their unsavoriness. He devotes an entire chapter to violent uprisings in Kenya following a disputed presidential election in 2007. The link to Obama? During a visit to Kenya in 2006, Obama and his wife, Michelle, arranged to take an AIDS test to publicly demonstrate the test&#8217;s safety. While there, Obama spoke to the assembled crowd. Raila Odinga, one of the two candidates running for president, was on the stage when Obama spoke. Corsi concludes that the event constituted an endorsement of Odinga. He goes on to attribute all the violence in Kenya to an elaborate Odinga plot.</p>
<p>Corsi, however, offers no evidence that Obama actually did endorse Odinga. In fact, MSNBC reported that during that same trip, Obama also met with Mwai Kibaki, who was Odinga&#8217;s opponent in that election, as well as with opposition leader Uhuru Kenyatta. And Human Rights Watch reported that both Odinga and Kibaki (or their supporters, anyway) had a hand in the violence that followed the election.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Vox</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420971</link>
		<dc:creator>Vox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 04:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420971</guid>
		<description>I downloaded the AP-Gfk detail.

http://www.ap-gfkpoll.com/pdf/AP-GfK_Poll_3_Topline_FINAL.pdf

This is an absolutely BIZARRE and self-contradictory read.

45% of respondents self identified as Evangelicals when only 23% self-identified in 2004 exit polls.  THAT says the POLL is drastically skewed.

78% said the country is moving in the wrong direction.

On all questions about handling the economy, the split was about 52% Obama to 38/39% McCain.

Health care was 55% Obama, 36% McCain.

Only on &quot;national security&quot; did McCain lead, 48% to 43%.

25% of the respondents were on cell phones, randomly chosen.  NO ONE KNOWS who owns a cell phone number, no certainty the cell phone is even in the area code where it is issued, is owned by a voter . . . 

I&#039;d be embarrassed to be associated with this Associated Press disaster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I downloaded the AP-Gfk detail.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ap-gfkpoll.com/pdf/AP-GfK_Poll_3_Topline_FINAL.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ap-gfkpoll.com/pdf/AP-GfK_Poll_3_Topline_FINAL.pdf</a></p>
<p>This is an absolutely BIZARRE and self-contradictory read.</p>
<p>45% of respondents self identified as Evangelicals when only 23% self-identified in 2004 exit polls.  THAT says the POLL is drastically skewed.</p>
<p>78% said the country is moving in the wrong direction.</p>
<p>On all questions about handling the economy, the split was about 52% Obama to 38/39% McCain.</p>
<p>Health care was 55% Obama, 36% McCain.</p>
<p>Only on &#8220;national security&#8221; did McCain lead, 48% to 43%.</p>
<p>25% of the respondents were on cell phones, randomly chosen.  NO ONE KNOWS who owns a cell phone number, no certainty the cell phone is even in the area code where it is issued, is owned by a voter . . . </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be embarrassed to be associated with this Associated Press disaster.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420955</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 01:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420955</guid>
		<description>what is wrong with all of you?  if nbc, cbs, abc, msnbc, cnn etc.....  and all the money that obama is spending on advertisements which he lied about taking,  and if the truth would come out about all his friends,  mccain would be leading again.   we had the economic problems and mccain went down again, but if people really understood what the liberals are going to do with the economy, the majority would not vote for him.  America is mostly conservative!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what is wrong with all of you?  if nbc, cbs, abc, msnbc, cnn etc&#8230;..  and all the money that obama is spending on advertisements which he lied about taking,  and if the truth would come out about all his friends,  mccain would be leading again.   we had the economic problems and mccain went down again, but if people really understood what the liberals are going to do with the economy, the majority would not vote for him.  America is mostly conservative!</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420952</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 01:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420952</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure voters really broke to Gore in 2000 so much because he was a steady hand candidate.  I would suggest his popular vote victory was due in large part to the late news of Bush&#039;s DUI disenchanting some of the religious right (a group that would fuel his win in 2004).  And the dynamics of 1996 make for a fairly weak comparison as well, imo.

We&#039;re not going to see Reagan 84 numbers for some time, but I do think an Obama rout (electorally) is more probable than a McCain win at this point.  If Obama can maintain anything close to a 5-7 point lead nationally, it seems almost impossible that he wouldn&#039;t find some scenario to carry him to 270.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure voters really broke to Gore in 2000 so much because he was a steady hand candidate.  I would suggest his popular vote victory was due in large part to the late news of Bush&#8217;s DUI disenchanting some of the religious right (a group that would fuel his win in 2004).  And the dynamics of 1996 make for a fairly weak comparison as well, imo.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re not going to see Reagan 84 numbers for some time, but I do think an Obama rout (electorally) is more probable than a McCain win at this point.  If Obama can maintain anything close to a 5-7 point lead nationally, it seems almost impossible that he wouldn&#8217;t find some scenario to carry him to 270.</p>
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		<title>By: L</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420945</link>
		<dc:creator>L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420945</guid>
		<description>I wonder how much complacency could cost Obama on election day.  If the polls keep showing a steep advantage it could be a lot closer if a lot of votes don&#039;t show up, especially young/first time voters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how much complacency could cost Obama on election day.  If the polls keep showing a steep advantage it could be a lot closer if a lot of votes don&#8217;t show up, especially young/first time voters.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Gardner</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420944</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420944</guid>
		<description>Actually....

Real Clear Politics shows Obama up by 7%.

FiveThirtyEight shows Obama up by 6.2%.

Pollster shows Obama up by 7%.

I don&#039;t think we&#039;re looking at rout territory, but we&#039;re definitely into landslide. Especially if Obama gets up to 360+ electoral votes. Because at that point he&#039;s at 2 to 1 McCain&#039;s numbers. But he&#039;ll most likely need a 8% national popular vote total to do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually&#8230;.</p>
<p>Real Clear Politics shows Obama up by 7%.</p>
<p>FiveThirtyEight shows Obama up by 6.2%.</p>
<p>Pollster shows Obama up by 7%.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re looking at rout territory, but we&#8217;re definitely into landslide. Especially if Obama gets up to 360+ electoral votes. Because at that point he&#8217;s at 2 to 1 McCain&#8217;s numbers. But he&#8217;ll most likely need a 8% national popular vote total to do that.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Stewart Carl</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420943</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Stewart Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420943</guid>
		<description>I guess it depends on your definition of rout. 5 points is not a rout in my book. You want a rout. &lt;a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1984 rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;THIS&lt;/a&gt; was a rout.

And, lets remember, polls are just polls. Routs happen at the ballot booth. It&#039;s kinda silly to argue how far ahead Obama is at this point. That wasn&#039;t the point of the post. I&#039;m just trying to see if, historically and statistically, McCain has a shot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess it depends on your definition of rout. 5 points is not a rout in my book. You want a rout. <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1984 rel="nofollow">THIS</a> was a rout.</p>
<p>And, lets remember, polls are just polls. Routs happen at the ballot booth. It&#8217;s kinda silly to argue how far ahead Obama is at this point. That wasn&#8217;t the point of the post. I&#8217;m just trying to see if, historically and statistically, McCain has a shot.</p>
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		<title>By: Avinash_Tyagi</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420941</link>
		<dc:creator>Avinash_Tyagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420941</guid>
		<description>yep and its clear when you check their data, in all respondents Obama leads 47 to 37, when its likely voters it becomes 44 to 43, the fact that it went from 1101 in the all respondents to 800 in the likely voter screen that they are cutting out a lot of people who will probably vote for Obama based on early turnout reports, their LV screen is too rigid</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yep and its clear when you check their data, in all respondents Obama leads 47 to 37, when its likely voters it becomes 44 to 43, the fact that it went from 1101 in the all respondents to 800 in the likely voter screen that they are cutting out a lot of people who will probably vote for Obama based on early turnout reports, their LV screen is too rigid</p>
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		<title>By: Avinash_Tyagi</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420940</link>
		<dc:creator>Avinash_Tyagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420940</guid>
		<description>Alan, most polls show a 5% or more lead in the popular vote with Obama breaking the 50% barrier, that is a rout, really this AP poll is a large outlier</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan, most polls show a 5% or more lead in the popular vote with Obama breaking the 50% barrier, that is a rout, really this AP poll is a large outlier</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Tyler</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420939</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420939</guid>
		<description>Could it be that voters have been paying more attention to Obama&#039;s connections and actions than the media? The Odinga connection alone would cost Obama 10 points if it got properly exposed by media:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://drslogan.wordpress.com/2008/10/22/kenya-barack-obamas-other-change/trackback/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://drslogan.wordpress.com/2008/10/22/kenya-barack-obamas-other-change/&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could it be that voters have been paying more attention to Obama&#8217;s connections and actions than the media? The Odinga connection alone would cost Obama 10 points if it got properly exposed by media:</p>
<p><a href="http://drslogan.wordpress.com/2008/10/22/kenya-barack-obamas-other-change/trackback/" rel="nofollow">http://drslogan.wordpress.com/2008/10/22/kenya-barack-obamas-other-change/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alan Stewart Carl</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420938</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Stewart Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420938</guid>
		<description>Hence the link to all the other polls, I didn&#039;t want to give the AP one too much weight. But only a couple of the polls would indicate a rout. I don&#039;t know if McCain can rally or not, but the numbers still make it a possibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hence the link to all the other polls, I didn&#8217;t want to give the AP one too much weight. But only a couple of the polls would indicate a rout. I don&#8217;t know if McCain can rally or not, but the numbers still make it a possibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob in Denver</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420936</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob in Denver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420936</guid>
		<description>From the AP-GfK crosstabs (h/t &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2008/10/biden_vs_palin.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bob Cesca&lt;/a&gt;):

&lt;blockquote&gt;45% of this poll&#039;s respondents are evangelicals or born-again Christians&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the AP-GfK crosstabs (h/t <a href="http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2008/10/biden_vs_palin.html" rel="nofollow">Bob Cesca</a>):</p>
<blockquote><p>45% of this poll&#8217;s respondents are evangelicals or born-again Christians</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jim S</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420934</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420934</guid>
		<description>Read over on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/some-likely-voter-models-are-suspect.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;FiveThirtyEight&lt;/a&gt; a recent article on likely voter models.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read over on <a href="http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/some-likely-voter-models-are-suspect.html" rel="nofollow">FiveThirtyEight</a> a recent article on likely voter models.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike B.</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/22/can-mccain-lead-a-late-rally/comment-page-1/#comment-420931</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9540#comment-420931</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;the new Associated Press-GfK poll showing Barack Obama with just a 44% to 43% lead among likely voters.&lt;/i&gt;

A likely voter screen that turns a rout into a dead heat is essentially worthless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>the new Associated Press-GfK poll showing Barack Obama with just a 44% to 43% lead among likely voters.</i></p>
<p>A likely voter screen that turns a rout into a dead heat is essentially worthless.</p>
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