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	<title>Comments on: Obama and the iDemocrats</title>
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	<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obama-and-the-idemocrats/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: wj</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obama-and-the-idemocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-421666</link>
		<dc:creator>wj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 20:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9845#comment-421666</guid>
		<description>The residents of the coasts may be more multi-cultural.  But there is no way to paint them (in practice) as more pro-government intervention.  At most, they differ from the center of the country as to which areas of the economy they want the government to intervene in.  

And as far as I can see, a depressingly large portion (from my point of view) of the population, all across the country, want the government to intervene in social and moral issues.  They differ a lot on just what they want the government to intervene in favor of, but the fact of intervention itself is just fine with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The residents of the coasts may be more multi-cultural.  But there is no way to paint them (in practice) as more pro-government intervention.  At most, they differ from the center of the country as to which areas of the economy they want the government to intervene in.  </p>
<p>And as far as I can see, a depressingly large portion (from my point of view) of the population, all across the country, want the government to intervene in social and moral issues.  They differ a lot on just what they want the government to intervene in favor of, but the fact of intervention itself is just fine with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike A.</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obama-and-the-idemocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-421552</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9845#comment-421552</guid>
		<description>I agree with some of the points made by Alan.  I believe the iDemocrats tend to be more inclusive of race, religion and lifestyles than the traditional Dems may have been.  I fully agree with the statement &quot;Theyâ€™re not an offshoot of a labor movement. Theyâ€™re an offshoot of globalization and all the integrations of culture, technology and liberal ideas that represents.&quot;  

My belief is that globalization over the last 20 years has not only had an impact on the tangibles such as trade, but also has changed many of our ideas and thoughts.  True these changes first take place in large coastal cities due to their higher exposure to globalization, but I don&#039;t believe  this can translate to the iDems valuing &quot;the ideals of the coasts and big cities where government interventionalism is high and international-style multiculturalism is prevalent.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with some of the points made by Alan.  I believe the iDemocrats tend to be more inclusive of race, religion and lifestyles than the traditional Dems may have been.  I fully agree with the statement &#8220;Theyâ€™re not an offshoot of a labor movement. Theyâ€™re an offshoot of globalization and all the integrations of culture, technology and liberal ideas that represents.&#8221;  </p>
<p>My belief is that globalization over the last 20 years has not only had an impact on the tangibles such as trade, but also has changed many of our ideas and thoughts.  True these changes first take place in large coastal cities due to their higher exposure to globalization, but I don&#8217;t believe  this can translate to the iDems valuing &#8220;the ideals of the coasts and big cities where government interventionalism is high and international-style multiculturalism is prevalent.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: George Mauer</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obama-and-the-idemocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-421546</link>
		<dc:creator>George Mauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9845#comment-421546</guid>
		<description>Rich, I think we&#039;re talking electoral map here, we all know popular vote counts for nadir..

Alan, you miiiiight be on to something so here&#039;s caveats, objections and some probably wrong observations from off the top of my head:

* We&#039;re young.  I don&#039;t think my political views will change as I grow older, have kids, get married, etc.  But I can&#039;t say for sure and I can&#039;t speak for the rest of us.

* Our leaders are highly educated yet I&#039;m not convinced that the movement represents necessarily an embracing of the value of education.

* Whereas values voters have pro-life, gun rights, stem cell research, and ID as their rallying cries, all we&#039;ve got is &#039;Change&#039; which is slowly going to become more and more meaningless (since we will have presumably CHANGE&#039;ed come January).  So whats going to be the issues keeping us united?  I&#039;m not sure how far an appreciation of a leader&#039;s tech savvy and charisma is going to take people.

* Finally I have to ask, regardless of what history thought of them 10/20 years on, how many presidents have left office as popular figures?  You&#039;ve read all mw&#039;s banging of the divided government drum that I have and while I disagree with him in that I still think Obama&#039;s the way to go I agree that the Democrats in full control will certainly make a mess of many many things and there will be plenty of blame ladled out. 

Also, Lets say Obama makes it 8 years, consider the events that are likely to happen during that same time period: At least for a while a worsening of the recession; the rise of China and India&#039;s economic prevalence; the rise of China and India&#039;s cultural prevalence; a hawkish and aggressive Russia; more terrorist attacks; a worsening of the Iraq/Afghanistan situation; an intensifying of the serious effects of global warming; and at least one major natural disaster.  None of these would be Obama or the Democrats&#039; faults, I tend to think they will address most of these better than GOP in its current state, but you can sure as hell bet there is going to be plenty of finger pointing by the end of which none of us (iDemocrats) will like each other at all.

So to address your overall theory, yes its a step in the right direction.  But I imagine starting half a year from now we will see enthusiasm start to wane rapidly.  Obama will probably be re-elected but his prestige will eventually be filed down through fighting with congress and world events in general.  He will leave office hated by a few and disliked by many.  Then, 4 or 5 years on as history re-evaluates him opinion would start to turn and come 8 years on he will start to be seen as a great leader.  Now, with his legacy as their rallying cry Democrats will solidify as a party, much like the GOP in Regan&#039;s wake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich, I think we&#8217;re talking electoral map here, we all know popular vote counts for nadir..</p>
<p>Alan, you miiiiight be on to something so here&#8217;s caveats, objections and some probably wrong observations from off the top of my head:</p>
<p>* We&#8217;re young.  I don&#8217;t think my political views will change as I grow older, have kids, get married, etc.  But I can&#8217;t say for sure and I can&#8217;t speak for the rest of us.</p>
<p>* Our leaders are highly educated yet I&#8217;m not convinced that the movement represents necessarily an embracing of the value of education.</p>
<p>* Whereas values voters have pro-life, gun rights, stem cell research, and ID as their rallying cries, all we&#8217;ve got is &#8216;Change&#8217; which is slowly going to become more and more meaningless (since we will have presumably CHANGE&#8217;ed come January).  So whats going to be the issues keeping us united?  I&#8217;m not sure how far an appreciation of a leader&#8217;s tech savvy and charisma is going to take people.</p>
<p>* Finally I have to ask, regardless of what history thought of them 10/20 years on, how many presidents have left office as popular figures?  You&#8217;ve read all mw&#8217;s banging of the divided government drum that I have and while I disagree with him in that I still think Obama&#8217;s the way to go I agree that the Democrats in full control will certainly make a mess of many many things and there will be plenty of blame ladled out. </p>
<p>Also, Lets say Obama makes it 8 years, consider the events that are likely to happen during that same time period: At least for a while a worsening of the recession; the rise of China and India&#8217;s economic prevalence; the rise of China and India&#8217;s cultural prevalence; a hawkish and aggressive Russia; more terrorist attacks; a worsening of the Iraq/Afghanistan situation; an intensifying of the serious effects of global warming; and at least one major natural disaster.  None of these would be Obama or the Democrats&#8217; faults, I tend to think they will address most of these better than GOP in its current state, but you can sure as hell bet there is going to be plenty of finger pointing by the end of which none of us (iDemocrats) will like each other at all.</p>
<p>So to address your overall theory, yes its a step in the right direction.  But I imagine starting half a year from now we will see enthusiasm start to wane rapidly.  Obama will probably be re-elected but his prestige will eventually be filed down through fighting with congress and world events in general.  He will leave office hated by a few and disliked by many.  Then, 4 or 5 years on as history re-evaluates him opinion would start to turn and come 8 years on he will start to be seen as a great leader.  Now, with his legacy as their rallying cry Democrats will solidify as a party, much like the GOP in Regan&#8217;s wake.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Horton</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obama-and-the-idemocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-421543</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Horton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9845#comment-421543</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why is that? Bush didnâ€™t even win his first election and arguably his second and yet he â€œruledâ€ as if he were an absolute dictator.&quot;

Name one legislative initiative of the Bush years that went through without sizable Democratic support.

Partriot Act?  Nope.  Lots of Dems there.

Resolution on Iraq? Sorry....overwhelming support from Dems there.

Tax rebate check v. 1.0? Lots of Dems there.

Tax rebate check v. 2.0?  Ditto.

Child Lef Behind?  Hmmm...lots of Democrats there too.

Current bailout schemes?  Hell, Dems support it more than Republicans.

I&#039;m sorry, but who is this imaginary dictator you refer to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why is that? Bush didnâ€™t even win his first election and arguably his second and yet he â€œruledâ€ as if he were an absolute dictator.&#8221;</p>
<p>Name one legislative initiative of the Bush years that went through without sizable Democratic support.</p>
<p>Partriot Act?  Nope.  Lots of Dems there.</p>
<p>Resolution on Iraq? Sorry&#8230;.overwhelming support from Dems there.</p>
<p>Tax rebate check v. 1.0? Lots of Dems there.</p>
<p>Tax rebate check v. 2.0?  Ditto.</p>
<p>Child Lef Behind?  Hmmm&#8230;lots of Democrats there too.</p>
<p>Current bailout schemes?  Hell, Dems support it more than Republicans.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, but who is this imaginary dictator you refer to?</p>
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		<title>By: gerryf</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obama-and-the-idemocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-421538</link>
		<dc:creator>gerryf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 14:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9845#comment-421538</guid>
		<description>Why is that? Bush didn&#039;t even win his first election and arguably his second and yet he &quot;ruled&quot; as if he were an absolute dictator. 

And, Obama will likely have a much larger congressional majority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is that? Bush didn&#8217;t even win his first election and arguably his second and yet he &#8220;ruled&#8221; as if he were an absolute dictator. </p>
<p>And, Obama will likely have a much larger congressional majority.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Horton</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obama-and-the-idemocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-421534</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Horton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 13:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9845#comment-421534</guid>
		<description>&quot;polls keep indicating he will win by a more than comfortable margin,&quot;

Which polls are those exactly?  Three have been released today that show Obama ahead by 5 (Rasmussen), 4 (Zogby) and 3 (GWU/Battleground), hardly political tsunami territory.

IF Obama wins by such numbers and attempts to rule as if he won by 15 points the most likely result is a world of political hurt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;polls keep indicating he will win by a more than comfortable margin,&#8221;</p>
<p>Which polls are those exactly?  Three have been released today that show Obama ahead by 5 (Rasmussen), 4 (Zogby) and 3 (GWU/Battleground), hardly political tsunami territory.</p>
<p>IF Obama wins by such numbers and attempts to rule as if he won by 15 points the most likely result is a world of political hurt.</p>
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