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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#8217;s War Chest</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Donklephant &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More on Obama fund raising</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/comment-page-1/#comment-421858</link>
		<dc:creator>Donklephant &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More on Obama fund raising</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9867#comment-421858</guid>
		<description>[...] up on yesterday&#8217;s money posts from Alan and me - A couple of stories shedding more light on the Axelrod/Obama Greatest Political Money [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] up on yesterday&#8217;s money posts from Alan and me &#8211; A couple of stories shedding more light on the Axelrod/Obama Greatest Political Money [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Stewart Carl</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/comment-page-1/#comment-421712</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Stewart Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 22:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9867#comment-421712</guid>
		<description>Erik, you could be right. But there&#039;s reason to be vigilant with any politician raising that sort of money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik, you could be right. But there&#8217;s reason to be vigilant with any politician raising that sort of money.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Sickinger</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/comment-page-1/#comment-421691</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Sickinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 21:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9867#comment-421691</guid>
		<description>Well, again - while I&#039;m not saying Obama has been as transparent as I&#039;d like...
I just don&#039;t agree with the argument equating raising a lot of money with corruption or whatever we&#039;re calling it.
My perspective is that since the money is dispersed across the many instead of the few, it also disperses the power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, again &#8211; while I&#8217;m not saying Obama has been as transparent as I&#8217;d like&#8230;<br />
I just don&#8217;t agree with the argument equating raising a lot of money with corruption or whatever we&#8217;re calling it.<br />
My perspective is that since the money is dispersed across the many instead of the few, it also disperses the power.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Stewart Carl</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/comment-page-1/#comment-421687</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Stewart Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 21:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9867#comment-421687</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;My problem here really is that you, without regard to any sort of fundamental basis, tried to not so subtly argue that Obama is not trying to win an election with the ability to fund his campaign through large fundraising, but rather irresponsible fundraising.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No, I took a CBS news report on Obama&#039;s fundraising and used it to raise a fairly typical question about the effect of money on politicians. You did notice how much money Obama has raised from the very financial insitutions that got us into the financial mess and which will be working very closely with the government in our post-bailout world? Again, if the numbers were reversed, a lot of Obama supporters would say that McCain is too cozy with the banks.

And the lack of transparency Obama provides regarding small donors is troubling b/c it&#039;s hard to tell whether the money is coming from Ma and Pa or less reputable sources. McCain does a much more thorough job of vetting and revealing his small donors (although he&#039;s by no means perfect)

As for the sidebar, that&#039;s a nice strawman but it&#039;s not the actual choice presented to us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My problem here really is that you, without regard to any sort of fundamental basis, tried to not so subtly argue that Obama is not trying to win an election with the ability to fund his campaign through large fundraising, but rather irresponsible fundraising.</p></blockquote>
<p>No, I took a CBS news report on Obama&#8217;s fundraising and used it to raise a fairly typical question about the effect of money on politicians. You did notice how much money Obama has raised from the very financial insitutions that got us into the financial mess and which will be working very closely with the government in our post-bailout world? Again, if the numbers were reversed, a lot of Obama supporters would say that McCain is too cozy with the banks.</p>
<p>And the lack of transparency Obama provides regarding small donors is troubling b/c it&#8217;s hard to tell whether the money is coming from Ma and Pa or less reputable sources. McCain does a much more thorough job of vetting and revealing his small donors (although he&#8217;s by no means perfect)</p>
<p>As for the sidebar, that&#8217;s a nice strawman but it&#8217;s not the actual choice presented to us.</p>
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		<title>By: Donklephant &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Barack buying the election?</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/comment-page-1/#comment-421629</link>
		<dc:creator>Donklephant &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Barack buying the election?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9867#comment-421629</guid>
		<description>[...] the election. Obama&#8217;s base of political and financial support is genuine. We don&#8217;t know who all his contributors are, but they are genuine in their support. The amount of money that Obama raises is a function of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the election. Obama&#8217;s base of political and financial support is genuine. We don&#8217;t know who all his contributors are, but they are genuine in their support. The amount of money that Obama raises is a function of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Sickinger</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/comment-page-1/#comment-421627</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Sickinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9867#comment-421627</guid>
		<description>sidebar: would you rather have a candidate &quot;corrupted&quot; by over a million donors or by just a few high powered lobbyists and influential individuals?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sidebar: would you rather have a candidate &#8220;corrupted&#8221; by over a million donors or by just a few high powered lobbyists and influential individuals?</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Sickinger</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/comment-page-1/#comment-421626</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Sickinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9867#comment-421626</guid>
		<description>&quot;By the way, Eric? Iâ€™m voting for Obama. I for one will manage to do so without turning off my cerebral cortex and operating on lizard brain stem.&quot;

Throwing personal diatribes around doesn&#039;t help you prove your point...not at all.  Your entire post is feels belittling and full of ill-will.  And to project my short statements into a full blown analysis is without merit.
When you don&#039;t know me, or my background, I don&#039;t think its fair to make it personal.  I know full well the historical background of fund raising in presidential politics.  I am well read in both politics background and history.  I&#039;m a libertarian in theory, but not in practice.  That said:

Again, Obama is raising money not by maxing out smaller numbers, but by  receiving donations from many small amount donors.  That cannot, and should not, detract from his huge ability to fundraise.

And that half hour of advertising is only a million, right? That&#039;s not big bucks, especially in this fund raising climate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;By the way, Eric? Iâ€™m voting for Obama. I for one will manage to do so without turning off my cerebral cortex and operating on lizard brain stem.&#8221;</p>
<p>Throwing personal diatribes around doesn&#8217;t help you prove your point&#8230;not at all.  Your entire post is feels belittling and full of ill-will.  And to project my short statements into a full blown analysis is without merit.<br />
When you don&#8217;t know me, or my background, I don&#8217;t think its fair to make it personal.  I know full well the historical background of fund raising in presidential politics.  I am well read in both politics background and history.  I&#8217;m a libertarian in theory, but not in practice.  That said:</p>
<p>Again, Obama is raising money not by maxing out smaller numbers, but by  receiving donations from many small amount donors.  That cannot, and should not, detract from his huge ability to fundraise.</p>
<p>And that half hour of advertising is only a million, right? That&#8217;s not big bucks, especially in this fund raising climate.</p>
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		<title>By: Lit3Bolt</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/comment-page-1/#comment-421609</link>
		<dc:creator>Lit3Bolt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9867#comment-421609</guid>
		<description>Alan, thank you for pointing this out.  Obama&#039;s power is this war chest (along with his crowds); without it, he had no legitimacy with party elders.  Republicans enjoyed massive war chests for years from the right but money for them slowed to a trickle this year (in part because of dire predictions of a Democratic blowout, none of which was a certainty until the Palin choice).

Is campaign finance part of a noble experiment gone wrong?  Should both sides adhere to equal money, or should money talk?  I think Alan&#039;s onto something about power corrupting...especially when such a massive fundraising advantage can simply enable a candidate to buy a half hour of primetime TV on nearly EVERY television station.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan, thank you for pointing this out.  Obama&#8217;s power is this war chest (along with his crowds); without it, he had no legitimacy with party elders.  Republicans enjoyed massive war chests for years from the right but money for them slowed to a trickle this year (in part because of dire predictions of a Democratic blowout, none of which was a certainty until the Palin choice).</p>
<p>Is campaign finance part of a noble experiment gone wrong?  Should both sides adhere to equal money, or should money talk?  I think Alan&#8217;s onto something about power corrupting&#8230;especially when such a massive fundraising advantage can simply enable a candidate to buy a half hour of primetime TV on nearly EVERY television station.</p>
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		<title>By: kranky kritter</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/comment-page-1/#comment-421601</link>
		<dc:creator>kranky kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9867#comment-421601</guid>
		<description>Eric, I wonder if you are old enough to remember how long and how loudly democrats once complained about the disparity in campaign financing due to the huge private gap that the GOP used to enjoy. At the time, democrats suggested that public financing was undertaken to ensure that the amounts spent by both campaigns were comparable. At the time, it was allegedly an issue of fairness.

Alan, you might as well just call him a douche. Same impact upon his reasoning, more satisfaction for you.  :-)

Clearly, you get no credit for even-handedness when it comes to drive-bys. The really sad thing is that even semi-regular visitors fail to notice this. You&#039;re either FER Obama, or you&#039;re AGIN&#039;.

Perhaps the saddest thing is that an election cycle or two from now, folks like your detractor will complain when a Republican opts out of public financing because that candidate can accrue a huge financing advantage via private donations.

Personally, I think Obama would have been politically foolish to stick with public financing given his potential to outraise McCain. Had he done so, I would have had to question his political judgement and toughness.

That said, you are 100% correct that Obama, by opting out of public financing, showed that his principles are subject to change for the sake of expedience. Now, I hapopen to think that public financing for major Presidential candidates is simply a waste of our money. But it sure would have been nice if major liberal proponents of this system (and its alleged rationale!!) had the basic reasonable decency to acknowledge that Obama&#039;s 180 demonstrates that he is capable of making decisions based primarily upon electoral expediency.

By the way, Eric? I&#039;m voting for Obama. I for one will manage to do so without turning off my cerebral cortex and operating on lizard brain stem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, I wonder if you are old enough to remember how long and how loudly democrats once complained about the disparity in campaign financing due to the huge private gap that the GOP used to enjoy. At the time, democrats suggested that public financing was undertaken to ensure that the amounts spent by both campaigns were comparable. At the time, it was allegedly an issue of fairness.</p>
<p>Alan, you might as well just call him a douche. Same impact upon his reasoning, more satisfaction for you.  :-)</p>
<p>Clearly, you get no credit for even-handedness when it comes to drive-bys. The really sad thing is that even semi-regular visitors fail to notice this. You&#8217;re either FER Obama, or you&#8217;re AGIN&#8217;.</p>
<p>Perhaps the saddest thing is that an election cycle or two from now, folks like your detractor will complain when a Republican opts out of public financing because that candidate can accrue a huge financing advantage via private donations.</p>
<p>Personally, I think Obama would have been politically foolish to stick with public financing given his potential to outraise McCain. Had he done so, I would have had to question his political judgement and toughness.</p>
<p>That said, you are 100% correct that Obama, by opting out of public financing, showed that his principles are subject to change for the sake of expedience. Now, I hapopen to think that public financing for major Presidential candidates is simply a waste of our money. But it sure would have been nice if major liberal proponents of this system (and its alleged rationale!!) had the basic reasonable decency to acknowledge that Obama&#8217;s 180 demonstrates that he is capable of making decisions based primarily upon electoral expediency.</p>
<p>By the way, Eric? I&#8217;m voting for Obama. I for one will manage to do so without turning off my cerebral cortex and operating on lizard brain stem.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Sickinger</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/comment-page-1/#comment-421589</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Sickinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9867#comment-421589</guid>
		<description>To be fair Alan, I wasn&#039;t entirely trying to erase your argument based on the idea you were attacking &quot;my&quot; guy....
Obama, and this has been argued before, left himself open to opting out of public financing.   My problem here really is that you, without regard to any  sort of fundamental basis, tried to not so subtly argue that Obama is not trying to win an election with the ability to fund his campaign through large fundraising, but rather irresponsible fundraising.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair Alan, I wasn&#8217;t entirely trying to erase your argument based on the idea you were attacking &#8220;my&#8221; guy&#8230;.<br />
Obama, and this has been argued before, left himself open to opting out of public financing.   My problem here really is that you, without regard to any  sort of fundamental basis, tried to not so subtly argue that Obama is not trying to win an election with the ability to fund his campaign through large fundraising, but rather irresponsible fundraising.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Stewart Carl</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/comment-page-1/#comment-421582</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Stewart Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9867#comment-421582</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;So is the argument really how dare he outraise McCain?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Excellent attempt to delegitimze the entire post.

I keep forgetting that if I compare a negative McCain action to a negative Obama action, that&#039;s a false equivilancy. But if I mention a negative Obama action without clearly stating a negative McCain action, that&#039;s some form of trickery. (I seem to be off the hook if I just talk negatively about McCain).

Obama lost credibility on fundraising when he broke his promise about taking public funds. McCain did not break that promise. If the roles were reversed, Obama supporters would be accusing McCain of trying to steal the election with ill-gotten donations.

As it is, I&#039;m not accusing Obama of anything but opening himself up to the corrupting influence of money. It&#039;s a topic worth discussing. Don&#039;t dismiss it because he&#039;s &quot;your&quot; guy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So is the argument really how dare he outraise McCain?</p></blockquote>
<p>Excellent attempt to delegitimze the entire post.</p>
<p>I keep forgetting that if I compare a negative McCain action to a negative Obama action, that&#8217;s a false equivilancy. But if I mention a negative Obama action without clearly stating a negative McCain action, that&#8217;s some form of trickery. (I seem to be off the hook if I just talk negatively about McCain).</p>
<p>Obama lost credibility on fundraising when he broke his promise about taking public funds. McCain did not break that promise. If the roles were reversed, Obama supporters would be accusing McCain of trying to steal the election with ill-gotten donations.</p>
<p>As it is, I&#8217;m not accusing Obama of anything but opening himself up to the corrupting influence of money. It&#8217;s a topic worth discussing. Don&#8217;t dismiss it because he&#8217;s &#8220;your&#8221; guy.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Sickinger</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/10/28/obamas-war-chest/comment-page-1/#comment-421574</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Sickinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 17:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=9867#comment-421574</guid>
		<description>I can tell an ASC piece by the title.
Ignoring the inflammatory and unverifiable argument that any more illegitimate donations to Obama than McCain... (And McCain&#039;s own attempts to raise money from, the Russians was it?)
He&#039;s up against not only McCain&#039;s money but also the NRCC&#039;s huge warchest.
So is the argument really how dare he outraise McCain?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can tell an ASC piece by the title.<br />
Ignoring the inflammatory and unverifiable argument that any more illegitimate donations to Obama than McCain&#8230; (And McCain&#8217;s own attempts to raise money from, the Russians was it?)<br />
He&#8217;s up against not only McCain&#8217;s money but also the NRCC&#8217;s huge warchest.<br />
So is the argument really how dare he outraise McCain?</p>
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