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	<title>Comments on: Quote Of The Day</title>
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	<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/07/quote-of-the-day-55/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: mw</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/07/quote-of-the-day-55/comment-page-1/#comment-423954</link>
		<dc:creator>mw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 05:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=10731#comment-423954</guid>
		<description>@Mike
I don&#039;t believe for a second that they can restore PAYGO with this Congress, but if they do stand by this, it is the most hopeful thing I&#039;ve heard yet. 

Keynes was discredited decades ago. Deficit spending fixes exactly nothing.  It never has and it never will. It can push a recession over the horizon, but it is like a drug, and you need more and more to keep the problem over the horizon. Eventually the piper is paid. Probably by you, but maybe you can foist it on your kids. 

This is what the various bailouts and stimulus packages are  costing us so far this year - from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.reason.com/blog/show/129987.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;reason&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;For those too sozzled or bozwozzled to track what we&#039;re spending on on bailouts these days, here&#039;s a quick tally:

  # $29 billion for Bear Stearns
  # $143.8 billion for AIG (thus far, it keeps growing)
  # $100 billion for Fannie Mae
  # $100 billion for Freddie Mac
  # $700 billion for Wall Street, including Bank of America (Merrill Lynch), Citigroup, JP Morgan (WaMu), Wells Fargo (Wachovia), Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and a lot more
  # $25 billion for The Big Three in Detroit
  # $8 billion for IndyMac
  # $150 billion stimulus package (from January)
  # $50 billion for money market funds
  # $138 billion for Lehman Bros. (post bankruptcy) through JP Morgan
  # $620 billion for general currency swaps from the Fed
  # Rough total: $2,063,800,000,000

&lt;b&gt;That&#039;s a little over $6,800 for every man, woman, and child, or just under $15,000 for each of America&#039;s 140 million taxpayers.&lt;/b&gt; &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That is before the next stimulus, the next  bailout for the auto industry, and whoever is cued up with their hands out behind that. On top of the usual deficit spending. On top of the existing record debt. On top of the unfunded Social Security mandate.  And before 1 Trillion dollars of new spending promised by Obama.  

I don&#039;t know what you guys are all thinking. This is not pretend money. This is not &quot;government&quot; money. This is real money. Your money. Our money. Money &lt;strike&gt;the government&lt;/strike&gt; we don&#039;t have. Money that we will be borrowing from the Chinese and others to pay back with interest. Money that will ultimately have to be raised from taxes, or the most insidious tax of all - runaway inflation. 

But let&#039;s just keep pushing that problem over the horizon  where we won&#039;t have to look at it. That way we can all pretend it&#039;s not there.  Leave it for our kids and grandkids to solve. But when the piper ultimately does get paid on this one, it&#039;ll make today&#039;s financial crisis look like good times. 


Have a nice weekend everybody.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike<br />
I don&#8217;t believe for a second that they can restore PAYGO with this Congress, but if they do stand by this, it is the most hopeful thing I&#8217;ve heard yet. </p>
<p>Keynes was discredited decades ago. Deficit spending fixes exactly nothing.  It never has and it never will. It can push a recession over the horizon, but it is like a drug, and you need more and more to keep the problem over the horizon. Eventually the piper is paid. Probably by you, but maybe you can foist it on your kids. </p>
<p>This is what the various bailouts and stimulus packages are  costing us so far this year &#8211; from <a href="http://www.reason.com/blog/show/129987.html" rel="nofollow">reason</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>For those too sozzled or bozwozzled to track what we&#8217;re spending on on bailouts these days, here&#8217;s a quick tally:</p>
<p>  # $29 billion for Bear Stearns<br />
  # $143.8 billion for AIG (thus far, it keeps growing)<br />
  # $100 billion for Fannie Mae<br />
  # $100 billion for Freddie Mac<br />
  # $700 billion for Wall Street, including Bank of America (Merrill Lynch), Citigroup, JP Morgan (WaMu), Wells Fargo (Wachovia), Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, and a lot more<br />
  # $25 billion for The Big Three in Detroit<br />
  # $8 billion for IndyMac<br />
  # $150 billion stimulus package (from January)<br />
  # $50 billion for money market funds<br />
  # $138 billion for Lehman Bros. (post bankruptcy) through JP Morgan<br />
  # $620 billion for general currency swaps from the Fed<br />
  # Rough total: $2,063,800,000,000</p>
<p><b>That&#8217;s a little over $6,800 for every man, woman, and child, or just under $15,000 for each of America&#8217;s 140 million taxpayers.</b> </i></p></blockquote>
<p>That is before the next stimulus, the next  bailout for the auto industry, and whoever is cued up with their hands out behind that. On top of the usual deficit spending. On top of the existing record debt. On top of the unfunded Social Security mandate.  And before 1 Trillion dollars of new spending promised by Obama.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what you guys are all thinking. This is not pretend money. This is not &#8220;government&#8221; money. This is real money. Your money. Our money. Money <strike>the government</strike> we don&#8217;t have. Money that we will be borrowing from the Chinese and others to pay back with interest. Money that will ultimately have to be raised from taxes, or the most insidious tax of all &#8211; runaway inflation. </p>
<p>But let&#8217;s just keep pushing that problem over the horizon  where we won&#8217;t have to look at it. That way we can all pretend it&#8217;s not there.  Leave it for our kids and grandkids to solve. But when the piper ultimately does get paid on this one, it&#8217;ll make today&#8217;s financial crisis look like good times. </p>
<p>Have a nice weekend everybody.</p>
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		<title>By: Obama&#8217;s First Broken Promise? &#171; The Sovereign Mind</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/07/quote-of-the-day-55/comment-page-1/#comment-423953</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama&#8217;s First Broken Promise? &#171; The Sovereign Mind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 05:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=10731#comment-423953</guid>
		<description>[...] H/T to Donklephant. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] H/T to Donklephant. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Avinash_Tyagi</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/07/quote-of-the-day-55/comment-page-1/#comment-423910</link>
		<dc:creator>Avinash_Tyagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=10731#comment-423910</guid>
		<description>First off deficit spending is needed in a recession, we can&#039;t get out of this without doing so, its the Keynesian way FTW.

Secoondly we need to do like FDR did in 1934 and raise taxes on the rich, thanks to his intelligent action the GDP grew almost 8% in 1934 and 35 and by 1936 was around 14% growth</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off deficit spending is needed in a recession, we can&#8217;t get out of this without doing so, its the Keynesian way FTW.</p>
<p>Secoondly we need to do like FDR did in 1934 and raise taxes on the rich, thanks to his intelligent action the GDP grew almost 8% in 1934 and 35 and by 1936 was around 14% growth</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/07/quote-of-the-day-55/comment-page-1/#comment-423896</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 01:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=10731#comment-423896</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;From Obama&#039;s campaign website&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Obama and Biden believe that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for by cuts to other programs or new revenue.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s good to see we&#039;ve moved beyond to campaign already.  Obama has always been a forward-thinker, not weighed down by the ideas of the past, even if the past was one week ago and they were his ideas.  (Sorry for the blatant sarcasm).

I sincerely hope that this story is not an accurate reflection of Obama&#039;s intent.  I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.  I think you can argue that we need to spend even if we don&#039;t have the money, in order to get us out of the recession.  However, if you&#039;re going to make promises that you have no intent on keeping, then you are not really any different than any other politician.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/" rel="nofollow">From Obama&#8217;s campaign website</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Obama and Biden believe that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for by cuts to other programs or new revenue.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s good to see we&#8217;ve moved beyond to campaign already.  Obama has always been a forward-thinker, not weighed down by the ideas of the past, even if the past was one week ago and they were his ideas.  (Sorry for the blatant sarcasm).</p>
<p>I sincerely hope that this story is not an accurate reflection of Obama&#8217;s intent.  I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.  I think you can argue that we need to spend even if we don&#8217;t have the money, in order to get us out of the recession.  However, if you&#8217;re going to make promises that you have no intent on keeping, then you are not really any different than any other politician.</p>
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		<title>By: mw</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/07/quote-of-the-day-55/comment-page-1/#comment-423878</link>
		<dc:creator>mw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=10731#comment-423878</guid>
		<description>Agreed about that line-up behind him. A very impressive and confidence inspiring team. As far as the press conference itself, there would have been no difference in content if he simply walked out with this line-up, smiled and walked back off the stage.  Although, truth be told,  I was relieved to learn that Obama has not been &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1108/Obama_has_spoken_only_to_living_presidents.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;communicating with dead presidents&lt;/a&gt; as part of his preparation for taking office. 

On your observation...
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;Consider it a more market-driven New Deal that not only tackles unemployment problems, but also touches on the ideas of energy independence and, by default, national security.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; - jg&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That is nice, but don&#039;t you think we would be better off with a government-controlled laissez-faire economy that not only tackles growth issues, but also touches on the ideas of voluntary service and, by default, puts a chicken in every pot?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed about that line-up behind him. A very impressive and confidence inspiring team. As far as the press conference itself, there would have been no difference in content if he simply walked out with this line-up, smiled and walked back off the stage.  Although, truth be told,  I was relieved to learn that Obama has not been <a href="http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1108/Obama_has_spoken_only_to_living_presidents.html" rel="nofollow">communicating with dead presidents</a> as part of his preparation for taking office. </p>
<p>On your observation&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p><i>&#8220;Consider it a more market-driven New Deal that not only tackles unemployment problems, but also touches on the ideas of energy independence and, by default, national security.&#8221;</i> &#8211; jg</p></blockquote>
<p>That is nice, but don&#8217;t you think we would be better off with a government-controlled laissez-faire economy that not only tackles growth issues, but also touches on the ideas of voluntary service and, by default, puts a chicken in every pot?</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy the Dhimmi</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/07/quote-of-the-day-55/comment-page-1/#comment-423867</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy the Dhimmi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=10731#comment-423867</guid>
		<description>Deficit spending is fine, in a recession or in good times.  Bush got railed for it in the media and on this website, even during times when the deficit was shrinking, and we had record economic growth.

I suppose its OK now that a democrat is doing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deficit spending is fine, in a recession or in good times.  Bush got railed for it in the media and on this website, even during times when the deficit was shrinking, and we had record economic growth.</p>
<p>I suppose its OK now that a democrat is doing it.</p>
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		<title>By: leapsecond</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/07/quote-of-the-day-55/comment-page-1/#comment-423865</link>
		<dc:creator>leapsecond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=10731#comment-423865</guid>
		<description>I think the greatest hope we have to get our economy back on its feet is to invest in energy independence, particularly &quot;green&quot; energy like wind/solar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the greatest hope we have to get our economy back on its feet is to invest in energy independence, particularly &#8220;green&#8221; energy like wind/solar.</p>
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		<title>By: mike mcEachran</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/07/quote-of-the-day-55/comment-page-1/#comment-423864</link>
		<dc:creator>mike mcEachran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=10731#comment-423864</guid>
		<description>Look at the remarkable difference in body language between Emanuel and the rest of the gang.  He looks like he&#039;s about to lurch our of his suit.  Damn, watch out for this guy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look at the remarkable difference in body language between Emanuel and the rest of the gang.  He looks like he&#8217;s about to lurch our of his suit.  Damn, watch out for this guy&#8230;</p>
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