77% Want Kids To Say Pledge Every Day

By Justin Gardner | Related entries in Bad Decisions, Polls, Religion, United States

Well, just when I think I understand Americans something like this comes around and smacks me in the face…

77% of U.S. voters say school children should say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning at school, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey.

Just 13% say they should not, and 9% are undecided.

Sorry, but aren’t we a nation overly concerned with personal freedoms and being free thinkers? Doesn’t it go against that very idea if we have our kids saying the same pledge to country and God day in and day out? It’s like jingoism training.

But wait, there’s more…

82% say the words “under God” should remain in the Pledge as well. 14% think the phrase should be dropped from the Pledge, and just 4% have no opinion.

Voters are closely divided over whether students should be able to opt out of saying the Pledge of Allegiance every morning. 44% say they should be allowed to do so, but 47% disagree. 9% are not sure.

That’s right…more people think it’s a good idea for non-religious kids to be forced to talk about “God” every single day they’re in school. And let’s remember folks…that word was not in the pledge until it was put there in the 50s.

Just when I think I know my country…

UPDATE:
Well, at least Doug agrees with me.

A lot of good comments so far, but some are definitely out of line. So folks, please, be civil. It doesn’t help any of us when you yell and name call.

Thanks.


This entry was posted on Monday, December 1st, 2008 and is filed under Bad Decisions, Polls, Religion, United States. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

42 Responses to “77% Want Kids To Say Pledge Every Day”

  1. nice try guy Says:

    i would not have a problem with the pledge if we change “flag” to “constitution”.

  2. Alan Stewart Carl Says:

    The Pledge of Allegiance = jingoism. Really?

    There’s a lot of problems in America. The Pledge isn’t one of them.

  3. Magoo Says:

    Thanks for your opinion, Mr. Carl. Now why isn’t it a problem? If it is not jingoism, then what is it? A cutesy quip? I have no issue with either viewpoint, as long as you provide something to go on.

  4. EvilPoet Says:

    For anyone who hasn’t read it, I highly recommend A Perspective on the Pledge by Alonzo Fyfe

  5. Justin Gardner Says:

    @alan

    No, the pledge itself does not = jingoism. But if you make a child say it every single day, it can definitely turn into something akin to obedience training. So, in that sense, I’m definitely saying that it can lead to jingoism.

    But let me pose a question…why would we have kids say it every day and not adults? Why are children somehow unique?

  6. Alan Stewart Carl Says:

    JG — sounds like you’re reaching pretty far to make a slippery slope argument. I hardly think asking kids to spend a minute a day reciting a pretty innocuous pledge to support “liberty and justice for all” is going to brainwash anyone. Even the referrence to “under God” is an incredibly watered down mention of religion.

    Personally, I don’t care if my children recite the pledge or not. They’ll learn patriotism regardless. But give kids and schools some credit here. Free thought is alive and well in America and the pledge isn’t going to subvert that.

    As for why adults don’t have to recite the pledge — uh, because we aren’t in school. We aren’t forced to practice our spelling either. School is where routine is forced upon us so that, after we leave school, we have the discipline to maintain needed routines (like going to work every morning and paying bills). Saying the pledge is just part of that forced routine. Probably not a particularly useful one, but you have to make a pretty big leap to think it’s in any way harmful.

  7. J. Harden Says:

    OH MY…how provocative!!

    Indeed, huge surprise that metrosexualized PC-drones aren’t a solid majority of the electorate. And who would have guessed after an Obama victory?! I was ready for the national abercrombie-unity apparel and the replacement of the 4th of July with National Gay Pride Day.

    Anything short of public defecation on the Bible, the flag and maybe an apple pie would lead to “jingoism” in the eyes of the prissy tech-nellies trying to impress their cubicle buddies with how rebellious & smart they are.

    But let me pose a question…why would we have kids say it every day and not adults? Why are children somehow unique?

    Lo’behold, after years of being told the contrary, there is in fact such a thing as a total stupid question.

  8. kaseyd Says:

    i for one think this country needs a little public defecation on the bible.

  9. Josh Says:

    Says a national survey of 1000 “likely voters”. Whatever.

  10. ExiledIndependent Says:

    Justin, I’m honestly surprised by your opinion, or maybe it’s a well-placed conversation starter. Either way, it’s very clear by the latest election that we aren’t free thinkers and personal freedom has taken a back seat to equality of outcome. So forcing people to do things and say (or not say) things should be par for the course, perhaps.

    More broadly, I think this may stem from a lefty misinterpretation of the Obama win. There’s no left-leaning mandate cultural sea-change for dismantling traditionally conservative practices. The Prop 8 results showed that, and so does this survey.

    It’s also important to remember that no matter how open minded we think we are (myself included), we tend to surround ourselves with like-minded people. This can create a skewed view of what the “average” person is like.

    At any rate, a vigorous discussion, which, as always, is nice to see.

  11. C. R. Contreras III Says:

    According to Mr. J. Gardner the ‘word’, was instituted in the 1950′s. If such is the case, then the majority of people born after 1950 were simply told to say it, and I’m sure that being 58 years ago they now make up the majority of the population. So does that generation and their children have a profound and deep relationship with God. Some yes, but other no. The fact is saying the pledge of allegiance in school was like anything else… boring. We didn’t understand what we were saying and even if we did, that single morning routine didn’t forever ingrain a belief in God. If anything, there were more ‘hippies’, civil rights activists, liberals, and generally liberal people after the atomic age of the 50′s, which you can clearly see in the demonstrations, and music of the 1960′s and 70′s. The pledge of allegiance is a morning routine in school, like when we all gargled fluoride, or played dodgeball. It’s part of life, stop bitching and deal with it.

  12. Phil Durd Says:

    To have a child “pledge allegiance” to something when at the same time you recognize them to be casually influenced (TV, video games, dirty pictures, offensive words) is to engage in behavior that you must consider designed to manipulate or coerce the child’s thoughts and behavior. Not all coercion is bad, as children clearly need social guidance. The question really is whether or not making a pledge of allegiance (any, not just this particular one) is positive or meaningful.

    It really doesn’t bother me that “under God” appears in the modern version (it wasn’t in the original and it bother me that people constantly insert a comma before “under God” in the new one), as it has the double entendre of being both literal and figurative/expository. However, I’m a little leary about having children pledge their obedience to the state. Historically, the state hasn’t set a terribly good example for children. I think it’s dubious to look to the state for moral guidance. The state’s been mortgaging the children’s future, poisoning their water and air, deporting their parents, turning a blind eye when they are hungry and sick, etc. Equating the flag, the county, and liberty and justice for all is a wonderful image – but it’s plainly deceitful. America’s great, but the flag doesn’t make it so, and neither does supporting the government unconditionally.

    I’m not sure it’s meaningful anymore either. My children’s classes in school are filled with foreign nationals and dual nationals (my own children are dual nationals). You’re far less apt to find these people comfortable with swearing allegiance to one country over another any more than you would forcing the children to swear allegiance to one parent over another. It’s sad that children are sometimes for to make such filial pledges.

    My children understand the etiquette around the flags of their two countries because I’ve made an effort to teach them. However, personal experience shows their American peers probably don’t. I used to have a position where I actually taught proper etiquette re the the US and other flags, anthems, and most of them had no clue to begin with. It’s not to impugn the other children or their parents, but frightfully few know basics about when to retire a flag, how to dispose of one, the meaning of the colors and stripes, when to fly them upside down, etc. Go to a ball game, and see how many people put their hand over their heart, take off their cap, — and see how many people get upset when non-citizens don’t salute the flag of this foreign country.

    I think the pledge is exceedingly poor as a means of inculcating a sense of civic duty and love of country in young children. It’s appropriate for older children with sufficient grounding in history to appreciate what it means, and even then I think it’s best that they understand it rather than practice it as rote.

  13. Justin Bean Says:

    Its ashamed that schools have eremoved references to God our Father. Pretty pathetic isnt it.

    jess
    http://www.privacy.de.tc

  14. L Says:

    We should give kids more credit. I don’t think the fact that they recite the pledge everyday is going to turn them in to drones, I have more faith in humans and our education system than that. Personally, I also don’t think reciting the pledge is likely to inspire patriotism. I don’t think it matters one way or the other.

    As long as we keep pushing metrosexual values through the media and wear abrocrombie and maybe one day dream of changing the fourth of july to national gay pride day I think we can feel good about how progressive we are. Those are progressive issues, right?

  15. leo Says:

    I think the pledge should be to the constitution, since that is the #1 most important thing to every citizen of the united states of america, it is the ONLY thing that every single human in this country has in common. I dont understand how separation of church and state becomes us reciting GOD in a patriotic pledge, and how the president is even ALLOWED to say “GOD” . By my definition anyone who believes we do anything for GOD, or that we SHOULD do anything in the name of GOD should be very far from politics, and not through their own personal belief but rather a law that should keep GOD very far away from political views and such.

    America seemed to do pretty well for over a hundred years when we did not have GOD in the pledge… and especially well when the founding fathers made it clear that GOD should not be the reason for any decisions, or a influence for anyone that makes choices on behalf of others.

    The fact that we are FED GOD everyday of our lives as though it is the only way and anyone that disagrees is not fit to even be considered equal to someone who asks themselves what would jesus do… its just LOL and childish.

    Since they know that many will NOT and DO NOT feel the same way about god as the ones that do …. they have to go and make laws and public outcries that if you do not believe in god then you are not a patriot, and actually that one that does not believe should not be treated the same as someone who does.

    I think America stands for freedom, freedom of thought, and religion… which means YOU can think god is your friend and you do right by him… BUT I CAN BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO GOD, and at the end of the day we are NO DIFFERENT, we both bleed, we both die, and we both have the same issues. Its the same thing as racism, and in about 50 – 100 years you will see that anyone who thinks that an athiest is less of a human being or less intelligent is the same as being a racist who thinks blacks are subpar to whites.

    I especially love when Bush justifies everything by saying GOD IS WITH US, or that he makes his decisions based on GODS will… it is the most childish thing ive heard.

    Some believe in the FORCE, others believe in the Bible…to me its the same crap, and at the end of the day.. it is the same crap…. FICTION!
    ggkthx nore

  16. Sean Says:

    @L Says – You forgot public defecation on the Bible, you can’t be progressive without that one :-)

    As for the pledge, I think you’re reaching a bit. Who cares if the words ‘under God’ are in there? They’re on our currency too.

    Most great Western artwork from the Renaissance through the 19th century had a markedly Christian bend to it, yet Atheists can easily respect the value of such work.

    The pledge is a song, let its lyrics be. Yes, it’s meant to instill patriotism and all that, but I think there’s little harm in that. All those 60′s hippie revolutionaries were raised on it – and in a much more religious and intolerant society to boot – and it didn’t stop them from being different.

  17. leo Says:

    what reciting the pledge does to kids at that age is drill into their heads that the word GOD is important, to athiests that word means NOTHING, so why should kids that do not believe in a god have to say that everything that the country stands for is UNDER GOD? do you not see whats wrong here? Its pretty obvious… if you change the pledge to say something along the lines of “AND THE RIGHT NOT TO BELIEVE IN ANY ENTITY GREATER THAN YOURSELF” THAT is what a truly free country and a citizen of it should believe. The fact that you have the RIGHT to believe anything you want. NOT that you DO BELIEVE IN GOD… do you understand yet?

    But for Thiests there is something about them that they NEED to impose their views on others. Athiests dont have this problem because we just dont give a crap, you can believe in santa klaus, you can believe in the tooth fairy. you can even like to eat mcdonalds, but why push it onto others? That is something that is very sacred to believers… sure it is not to the degree that the saudis believe in their god, but what difference does it make how hard you push your ideas onto others? The fact that you feel that you need to is rediculous enough! Sure you can say that “well you dont have to listen” But then why is it that when a athiest tries to push his NON-BELIEF onto a believer it automatically becomes a hate crime, or a scandal?

    I will not teach my children about god, nor will i teach them that he does not exist, same as what my parents did with me. THis way i was able to make my own educated choice regarding the issue, and i was able to see what religion truly is and how it manipulates people. So far i am living a pretty good life, decent job, good morals, and most important i never treated a single human being as though they are not my equal, no matter what age, race, gender, skin color, physique, ideology, age. And when i die, i will leave behind a legacy and my kids, but they will always be allowed to make their own decisions and hold whatever they want as their belief. Even if they are bible beaters, that is fine with me as long as they come to that through their own thinking and not someone elses.

    Read “The God Delusion” By Richard Hawkins and enjoy.

  18. Dollface Says:

    When I was a kid I would put in “frog” instead of “God”. Children aren’t stupid, and they have a right to NOT endorse God as “protector of our nation” or whatever the hell “one nation under god” is supposed to mean.

    Separation of church and state anyone?

  19. blackoutyears Says:

    This post is missing out on a couple of the more interesting aspects of the survey which were noted on other blogs. Apparently a significant majority of blacks surveyed (66% I think?) said that children should say the pledge every day while a corresponding minority of blacks (somewhere in the 20s? Forgive my poor memory) said that they don’t believe that there’s liberty and justice for all in the U.S. As my wife(who is black) said, maybe they feel that if their kids say it enough it will be true? It struck me as dissonant, and undermines the authority and pertinence of the survey to say the least.

  20. Nephlm Says:

    What forcing kids to recite the pledge does is teach them that they should not stand up for their values but instead should go along with the status quo whether this represents them or not.

    It’s unimportant just a little social ceremony, no reason to object. No reason to stand up because you don’t believe in god, it’s just a little word. No reason to object because pledging unquestioning allegiance a flag makes no sense. Just stand in line and do as you are told.

    This is training to keep them from speaking out later when they find they are gay or black or atheist or any other group that is considered fringe when they grow up.

    It does not serve this country to have them learn this lesson so early.

  21. Brian D Says:

    Come on, this is utter BS. I agree with Alan and believe that we have much, much more important things to worry about.

    Why is this such a concern now? I’m assuming most of you made it through your daily “brainwashing” sessions back in the 70′s, 80′s etc.

    It’s school in America, you did it, and your children should do it too. there are worse things you can do to a child’s mind than forcing them to show some respect for 1 minute each morning.

    Why do I feel like it’s a much bigger issue for the overbearing parent set than it is for the kids?

  22. Jordan Lund Says:

    I’d wager that most of the people who said it should be required also believe that it’s in the Constitution somewhere or is part of citizenship or something equally stupid.

  23. jt_mcrAwr_culture wars* Says:

    There’s a lot of problems in America. The Pledge wasnt one of them before 1951 when “under god” was added, now its been a problem.

  24. J. Harden Says:

    Oh, Leo — you’re so enlightened, so brave, so truly courageous — to stand so stern against the opiatic invisible-man-in-the-sky delusion that oppresses us and turns our children into little Manchurian Lutherans.

    Alas, your children have you there — during their times of despair & fear & weakness – to reassure them that…there is no point to life, no higher moral code, no purpose beyond themselves, no nothing — just a big black meaningless empty void of darkness — their consciousness/their life in fact is a cosmic fart, a random congealing of galactic snot matter.

    And why the f*&ck would you treat everyone as any equal? Are you retarded? If you don’t believe in God, then you don’t believe that every one is equal before God — so where does the equality come into it? Because people are not equally intelligent (to wit, read your comment), people are not equally talented, people are not equally anything if you remove the ultimate judge. Is this something that you do simply because your a nice guy? Like, “Look I’m an aethesist, so I don’t “believe” in any actual equality, but I don’t want to appear to be an asshole, so I’m make doubly certain that I say that I treat everyone as my equal.”

    Its been fun slumm’in it Leo.

  25. Britt Says:

    I don’t have a problem with kids having to say the pledge of allegiance, I do have a problem if they are forced to say ‘under god’. When I was still in school we had to do the daily pledge (which honestly no one enjoyed) but when it came to the ‘under god’ part I simply didn’t say it, I just moved on after the rest of the class did.

    I didn’t really care about the pledge and honestly don’t think it had any influence on me as a child but forcing a body of people to be required to say something they don’t believe in is silly. If I got in trouble as a kid for not saying it I’d just be that more defiant about it.

    Eh, so thats my two cents. Doesn’t say exactly what I want it too but whatever.

  26. jasonc Says:

    They attempted to get me to say the pledge, I steadfastly refused. The only time this ever lead to trouble was when i refused to even standup. As soon as i could read i read about all the religions out there and quickly realized it as fantasy. And this was in gradeschool people. As has been mentioned before, if there must be a pledge is should be to the constitution.

    Any “Christian” here who claims otherwise does not believe in freedom of religion, for you are forcing your religion on the children of the united states. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Keep your holy delusions to yourselves.

  27. Jordan Lund Says:

    @ J. Harden – You don’t really seem to know the first thing about atheism so I’ll take a shot at explaining it for you.

    You don’t believe in Buddha, right? Or Shiva or Osiris or Thor? The pantheon of Hinduism is just a load of nonsense, right?

    Well guess what? I just believe in one fewer gods than you do. That’s it, that’s all there is to it.

    Now you may believe that a moral system depends on a belief in God, that the two are inseparable. I don’t. In fact, I’d argue that a TRUE moral code should be universal and as a result completely detached from any sort of theistic belief.

    For example:

    Murder is wrong because I don’t have the right to deprive another human being of their life.

    Theft is wrong because I don’t have the right to property or services that I did not earn.

    See how easy that is? No God, no higher power, no threat of punishment involved. That’s what morality is about.

    Atheists believe that the world around us is all we’ve got and all we’ll ever get and as a result we owe it to ourselves and our descendants to make it as good a place as possible.

    That means weeding out the narrow minded bigots who would hate and destroy rather than love and create.

  28. Justin Gardner Says:

    First off, of course there are more important things to worry about. But given that this is ONE post on a BLOG, you think you can cut me some slack? Yes, I’m genuinely surprised by these numbers, and so I blog about it. As if this is odd behavior?

    @Alan,

    There’s an objective reason and benefit for teaching kids how to spell or do math homework or learn physical fitness. But there’s no demonstrable benefit to have kids recite a pledge to a flag, especially since I think we’d all acknowledge that kids simply ignore it. It’s not like this is a good way to either a) show you’re patriotic or b) learn patriotism. And to that last point…especially since that term seems to be too often co-opted by those who would have us not question our government. Liberty and justice is not defined by allegiance to a flag or any sort of pledge, and it certainly isn’t defined by acknowledging the existence of a “God.”

    Also, the words “under God” are not innocuous, especially since the Founders took such great care to leave the word “God” out of the founding documents, and instead opted to say “Creator.” But this post is less about my problem with the pledge and more about the idea that people think kids should be forced to say it. That just somehow seems unAmerican to me. But that’s just me and, oh, the other people in this comment thread who I’m assuming are all either a) metrosexual, b) wear Abercrombie or c) only trying to be rebellious and/or smart.

    @J.Harden

    More insults? And you of all people are accusing me of trying to impress people with how rebellious and smart I am?

    Good times.

  29. Oh Brother. Says:

    Come on… really? Why is this an issue?

    I have never been religious but I have no problem saying the pledge as it stands. I recited the pledge every school day from when I was 4 until I was 18 and I have NEVER been offended by it.

    People like you are just so sensitive about the stupidest things. What makes you act like this? Are you just thatinsecure with your life? Is it because you have to protest something as ridiculous as this so that if the pledge gets changed, you can say to your children, “I did that”?

    Seriously people — this ‘politically correct’ bullshit is getting way too out of hand.

    Oh, and Merry Christmas! (Yeah, I said it)

  30. Jeremy from Oregon Says:

    “And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men….when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret….”
    –Matthew 6:5-6

    Justin, I agree with you. I am not against the pledge of allegiance or for that matter prayer in school. What am am against is those that want to politicize these matters for some sort of gain or recognition within their own constituencies.

    The pledge of allegiance along with prayer are intensely personal things. That a person wishes to share these things with others is not is not wrong, but that a group of people wish to impose onto others their beliefs.

    Time warp back to the 1988 presidential election between George H.W. Bush and Michael Dukakis. This is a perfect example of taking intensely personal issues and politicizing them for personal gain. Remember that George H.W. Bush was running extremely low in the polls for president when his political hack Harvey “Lee” Atwater ran T.V. ads excusing Michael Dukakis of being “anti-American” because Dukakis when asked whether he supported making the Pledge of Allegiance mandatory said no, he would not support making it mandatory.

    And Dukakis had good reason to believe that that in fact was the most American thing to do. He had along with everyone else witnessed the Supreme courts earlier decision stating that it was unconstitutional to make the Pledge of Allegiance mandatory. So the idea that Dukakis was “unpatriotic” because of this belief is total nonsense. But it nevertheless worked very well for George Bush Senior in his bid for the White House.

    It just goes to show you how uneducated, insular and uninformed the American populace really is and for the most part has always been. Americans as a whole suffer from historical amnesia. Where as the rest of the world tends to look at things with longer memeory Americans tend to think in terms of years if not months. It quite easy to come out with a politicized issue and sway Americans just on that rather than actually having constructive dialogue, where the most informed person is likely to be the the winner.

    American politics are more like boxing. Where the most cunning a ruthless is the last on standing. The question is– is that the kind of qualities we want to be foremost in the person with whom the world rests? Unfortunately, the all to obvious answer is yes. We want fluff over substance. Thus you have the last 8 years under a war mongering president.

    Prayer in schools? Sure, who’s stopping you? Prayer in schools for everyone despite their religious beliefs? Uh, is this a theocracy or the United states of America?

  31. johnny Says:

    only a fool utterly ignorant of the intent of the US constitution could find the ‘pledge of allegiance’ to be other than what it is: pure, unadulterated dreck meant to stoke the mindless patriotic jingoism which so often accompanies the impoverished intellect (with a touch of make-believe ‘religion’ thrown in for good measure).

    those who feel the ‘pledge’ is somehow necessary or important are the same idiots who believe in invisible gasbags in the sky, and who persist in throwing their money away on landlines (since these are the only phones called during ‘telephone polling’). see you in the next dimension, bronze-age-myth-believing-f*cktards!

  32. Justin M Says:

    @Sean said : As for the pledge, I think you’re reaching a bit. Who cares if the words ‘under God’ are in there? They’re on our currency too.

    They shouldn’t be on either. The reason those words were put in both places, at the same time, was to show how the country rejected the “godless communists”. To have these phrases in our pledge and on our currency now reminds us that this country/government is against athiesm, which it should not be.

  33. Chris Says:

    I used to make up my own words to the pledge while in school. I absolutely will not pledge my allegiance to the flag or to the government. I don’t owe my allegiance to them or to god. I will pledge allegiance to the people of this country and to the constitution, but none else. And if you think that forcing children to repeat the pledge over and over again is anything but brainwashing, then you haven’t been in school for a while. But then again, people are used to be brainwashed – that’s what religion is for.

  34. grognard Says:

    If the pledge was “mandatory” then I am assuming that there would be a penalty for noncompliance. For a school that would first be the Principals office and for repeated offenses, expulsion. So the following examples.

    An Atheist omits the word God from the pledge, but claims that this is OK because the original version is still good to use. To the Principals office or not?

    A polytheist believes there are many Gods and so uses the plural version of the word. Principals office or not?

    A Muslim believes that the only true word for God is Allah so he uses the “true” word. Violation or not?

  35. Scott Says:

    All right, enough of the political correctness crap. This is America, we say the pledge of allegiance in our schools, if you don’t like it you have the freedom to leave, please do so expeditiously.

  36. Alan Stewart Carl Says:

    @ Johnny: yes, you are clearly superior to all those who disagree with you. Congratulations. You may now go back to never questioning your own beliefs.

    @ JG: I agree it’s probably a pointless exercise. I disagree that it’s at all harmful. A lot of people seem to be making the pledge a symbol for other things in the culture with which they disagree. The problem is, the pledge simply doesn’t rise to a level worthy of contempt. Or even consternation. It’s better to worry about the big things.

  37. darter22 Says:

    Defecate on the BuyBull? Hell yeah!

  38. Kevin C Says:

    Leo,
    you said “and especially well when the founding fathers made it clear that GOD should not be the reason for any decisions, or a influence for anyone that makes choices on behalf of others.”

    Quick question regarding the following somewhat well known line:
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

    Who do you think he was referencing when he said “Creator”? Don’t get me wrong, I’m certainly opposed to forcing kids to say the pledge, but would like some historical accuracy

  39. Justin Gardner Says:

    @Alan

    With all due respect, you wrote a post today about the BCS playoff system. Now, I liked the post, and I even agreed with it, but shouldn’t you be worrying about more important things too?

    So then, allow me to be a little worried that Americans are cool with forcing kids to pledge obedience to a country and a deity every single day they go to school when we’re supposed to live in a society where personal freedoms are respected and church and state are divided, okay?

    One last note…isn’t in interesting that this post generated the most comments we’ve had in weeks? And this for a topic that nobody should be worrying about. Hmm….

  40. European Says:

    Seriously, that pledge thing is so Soviet. And it doesn’t help when people freak out when somebody tries to opt out.

  41. Jordan Lund Says:

    @ Kevin C – That line is from the Declaration of Independence. Not the Constitution.

    Here’s a clue – One document is about freeing a people from a perceived oppressive government. The other establishes a code of law under which the new nation is formed.

    You might want to be able to tell them apart. It’s kind of important.

  42. Freedom of Religion? Most Americans Don’t Buy It « Says:

    [...] Links: – In Defense of the Original, Secular Pledge of Allegiance – Donklephant’s take on the issue – It’s Time to Update the [...]

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One last note, we will not tolerate comments that disparage people based on age, sex, handicap, race, color, sexual orientation, national origin or ancestry. We reserve the right to delete these comments and ban the people who make them from ever commenting here again.


Thanks for understanding and have a pleasurable commenting experience.


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