Comments on: Warren, Prayer and “Unity” http://donklephant.com/2008/12/18/warren-prayer-and-unity/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:03:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Trescml http://donklephant.com/2008/12/18/warren-prayer-and-unity/comment-page-1/#comment-433062 Trescml Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:14:26 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=12218#comment-433062 Although I don't agree with Warren on many things, I would say that including him works on a larger level. There are many huge challenges that this country needs to start working toward resolving (health care, Medicare reform, deciding how to handle Social Security, and the budget deficit to name a few). These big issues can not be solved by either a partisan Republican or Democratic take. These are issues that will need 65-70 percent of the country on board to make progress in the tough areas. I hope that Warren is part of a strategy that is working toward bringing enough people together to start moving forward in areas that have been basically stalled for the last 16 years. Although I don’t agree with Warren on many things, I would say that including him works on a larger level. There are many huge challenges that this country needs to start working toward resolving (health care, Medicare reform, deciding how to handle Social Security, and the budget deficit to name a few). These big issues can not be solved by either a partisan Republican or Democratic take. These are issues that will need 65-70 percent of the country on board to make progress in the tough areas. I hope that Warren is part of a strategy that is working toward bringing enough people together to start moving forward in areas that have been basically stalled for the last 16 years.

]]> By: mike mcEachran http://donklephant.com/2008/12/18/warren-prayer-and-unity/comment-page-1/#comment-433059 mike mcEachran Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:54:27 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=12218#comment-433059 I'll be respectful to a guy who is trying to fight poverty, AIDS, and help the environment, but Warren did compare gay marriage to pediphelia. I have to express some outrage. These sentiments are dehumanizing, and lead to violence against innocent people. This really should disqualify him from the platform on a day that should be all about inclusion. However, I respect what Obama is trying to do, and I am prepared to take a hit like this if it serves a higher purpose. BTW, let's see how much understanding and class is shown by the other side when Obama appoints an opening gay man to be Secretary of the Navy. Should be interesting. I’ll be respectful to a guy who is trying to fight poverty, AIDS, and help the environment, but Warren did compare gay marriage to pediphelia. I have to express some outrage. These sentiments are dehumanizing, and lead to violence against innocent people. This really should disqualify him from the platform on a day that should be all about inclusion. However, I respect what Obama is trying to do, and I am prepared to take a hit like this if it serves a higher purpose.

BTW, let’s see how much understanding and class is shown by the other side when Obama appoints an opening gay man to be Secretary of the Navy. Should be interesting.

]]> By: kranky kritter http://donklephant.com/2008/12/18/warren-prayer-and-unity/comment-page-1/#comment-433057 kranky kritter Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:46:58 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=12218#comment-433057 Dennis, this a thoughful and open-minded post, and in the spirit which many centrists think is long overdue. Nevertheless, I share the concerns of others here who suggest that the partisans of each wing may conspire to devour the open-minded. <blockquote> Gays need to be about making the case for gay marriage, not acting as some kind of ’star chamber’ for those who disagree with us. I’m not saying we can’t criticize Warren or any other person for their role. But let’s show a bit of class, shall we?</blockquote> I agree with this sentiment. So I'll hope to be surprised. But I'll bet no money on a calm rational response from folks who are very angry and disappointed. Rightfully so, in my opinion, which further complicates things. Dennis, this a thoughful and open-minded post, and in the spirit which many centrists think is long overdue.

Nevertheless, I share the concerns of others here who suggest that the partisans of each wing may conspire to devour the open-minded.

Gays need to be about making the case for gay marriage, not acting as some kind of ’star chamber’ for those who disagree with us.

I’m not saying we can’t criticize Warren or any other person for their role. But let’s show a bit of class, shall we?

I agree with this sentiment. So I’ll hope to be surprised. But I’ll bet no money on a calm rational response from folks who are very angry and disappointed. Rightfully so, in my opinion, which further complicates things.

]]> By: TerenceC http://donklephant.com/2008/12/18/warren-prayer-and-unity/comment-page-1/#comment-432964 TerenceC Fri, 19 Dec 2008 12:13:34 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=12218#comment-432964 It was a great move in my opinion. Warren doesn't stand for anything I believe in personally, but it doesn't change the fact that Warren and his followers (directly or through other evangelical organizations) represent millions of Americans with fairly narrow political interests. He's not a loud mouth, he's a true believer in his many causes - most of which follow New Testament teachings. Obama just slapped any right wing evangelical who thinks their beliefs have to also become our laws - despite whose Civil Rights are trampled in the process. I believe BO doesn't necessarily need to openly embrace the GLT population in order to allow these discussions to take place- it's the "subtle bigotry of high expectations" we all need to watch out for. This decision will allow a national discussion on GLT hCivil Rights to occur without all the labeling, devisiveness, and social contraction. It was a great move in my opinion. Warren doesn’t stand for anything I believe in personally, but it doesn’t change the fact that Warren and his followers (directly or through other evangelical organizations) represent millions of Americans with fairly narrow political interests. He’s not a loud mouth, he’s a true believer in his many causes – most of which follow New Testament teachings. Obama just slapped any right wing evangelical who thinks their beliefs have to also become our laws – despite whose Civil Rights are trampled in the process. I believe BO doesn’t necessarily need to openly embrace the GLT population in order to allow these discussions to take place- it’s the “subtle bigotry of high expectations” we all need to watch out for. This decision will allow a national discussion on GLT hCivil Rights to occur without all the labeling, devisiveness, and social contraction.

]]> By: Duckam http://donklephant.com/2008/12/18/warren-prayer-and-unity/comment-page-1/#comment-432928 Duckam Fri, 19 Dec 2008 07:16:03 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=12218#comment-432928 I do totally agree that this is classic Obama - he really wants to bring people together, even those some might consider fringe/radical. While that sounds nice in a generic way, in the real world he can run into serious trouble as there are many partisan people out there who are really unable to accept moving to a truly open minded position. Particularly when it involves what many people feel is a civil rights issue. I do totally agree that this is classic Obama – he really wants to bring people together, even those some might consider fringe/radical.

While that sounds nice in a generic way, in the real world he can run into serious trouble as there are many partisan people out there who are really unable to accept moving to a truly open minded position.

Particularly when it involves what many people feel is a civil rights issue.

]]> By: mike mcEachran http://donklephant.com/2008/12/18/warren-prayer-and-unity/comment-page-1/#comment-432846 mike mcEachran Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:39:54 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=12218#comment-432846 I agreed with George in a previous post, and (as a gay man myself) I'd like to chime in to agree with you, too, Dennis. I think the gay lobby has strategically screwed up on this issue from the begining. It's time we had rational discourse with other rational people. I think Sanders is probably one of those (although I still want to know if he thinks I'm going to burn in hell - which to me is the real litmus test for the truly wacko - I have a feeling that secretly, he does not.) I respect people's sceptism of gay marriage for the reasons that George outlines. Yes, a bit of class is what is needed here. Count me in. I agreed with George in a previous post, and (as a gay man myself) I’d like to chime in to agree with you, too, Dennis. I think the gay lobby has strategically screwed up on this issue from the begining. It’s time we had rational discourse with other rational people. I think Sanders is probably one of those (although I still want to know if he thinks I’m going to burn in hell – which to me is the real litmus test for the truly wacko – I have a feeling that secretly, he does not.) I respect people’s sceptism of gay marriage for the reasons that George outlines. Yes, a bit of class is what is needed here. Count me in.

]]> By: George Mauer http://donklephant.com/2008/12/18/warren-prayer-and-unity/comment-page-1/#comment-432842 George Mauer Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:27:55 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=12218#comment-432842 Agreed Dennis. In addition, as I pointed out in a few other comment threads, his actual prop 8 rhetoric seems to be aimed at the only legitimate argument to be had. Namely, the fear that the legal nomenclature might land in such a manner that no church could refuse to conduct a gay wedding without exposing itself to discrimination charges. The obvious solution is civil unions and getting the word marriage out of the law entirely. I have not heard anything from him opposing such a plan. Agreed Dennis. In addition, as I pointed out in a few other comment threads, his actual prop 8 rhetoric seems to be aimed at the only legitimate argument to be had. Namely, the fear that the legal nomenclature might land in such a manner that no church could refuse to conduct a gay wedding without exposing itself to discrimination charges.

The obvious solution is civil unions and getting the word marriage out of the law entirely. I have not heard anything from him opposing such a plan.

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