“A recent study by the nonpartisan Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments estimated the total cost of the Iraq war at $687 billion and put Afghanistan war spending at $184 billion”

That is significantly more than the stimulus ($787 B, by my count), and we will actually have somethign to show for it.

Oh, it also probably won’t kill hundreds of thousands of people and cause torture.

It’s fine that you’re all snarky and cynical, but it really doesn’t work as well when you’re factually in the wrong.

How many speed-reading whiz-kid representatives do you think slogged past their own pork to read the entire 647 (or so) pages of the “stimulus” menu?”

- David Harsanyi

Will Obama veto this if it gets to him as pork-laden as it is now?

I will add that Obama understands that this is politics better than anyone, and he’s willing to continue to “rise above it”, be patient, keep showing up, keep negotiating, and do whatever is necessary to get’er’done, even if the opposition is engaging in a dumb-show. That’s what we love about Obama – he seems to hold our interests first. By being patient and consistent, Obama illuminates all the calculated behavior that the congress people are engaging in. “The light of day is the best disinfectant”. Amen.

I expect some members of the GOP to do things that they feel are good for the country even at the expense of the party line. But not often, and not right away. And I respect that there are genuine philosophical differences. This means that Republicans view many of the actions the GOP takes as actually good for the country. Imagine that! I’m Kranky, and I’m skeptical, but I’m not a cynic. The partisn gap in our national politics is as much about means as it is about ends, and no one ought to overlook that,

The country will see – and know – that the ones taking chances to try to make things better are the Obama led Dems and not the obstruction minded Republicans.

That’s the real laugher. The dems are playing at least as much politics with this as the GOP. People paying attention to actual content know that this bill includes too many pet dem projects that are unlikely to provide anything resembling economic stimulus. It’s sad to see such an important and painfully expensive action like this bill come to comprise little more than the fulfillment of pent-up democratic desire for local pork delivery. If and when this bill fails to achieve much in the way of tangible positive effect upon current economic trends, remember that point.

I have a different view. Obama did what he said he would. He listened and had the bill changed is several significant ways that the Republicans wanted – something Bush NEVER did. In return, the Republicans spit in his face.

The result – House Republicans are now irrevelent. Their opinion is worthless, and compromising with them is a fools game.

Obama played well, and now he knows that he needs 3-4 Republican votes in the Senate (to prevent the universal Republican fillibuster) – he needs nothing else.

The country will see – and know – that the ones taking chances to try to make things better are the Obama led Dems and not the obstruction minded Republicans.

And in a way, this looks bad for Obama. It’s clear that while he’s reaching across the aisle, his counterparts in Congress certainly aren’t–he doesn’t seem to have much influence on them, otherwise they would have included GOP contributors at the beginning of the process. Either that, or “bipartisanship” is just another pretty word.

I know this may be a difficult concept for folks on the left side of the isle to accept but he fact is that there are lots of people in this country who have been disgusted with the performance of the Republican party over the last several years as they signed on another major entitlement program in Medicaid D, ran the deficits up with no concern of how to pay it back, and implemented many other policies that were decidedly not conservative in nature.

Now here is the part where you really have to pay attention to keep up guys…..we spoke out! We voted against them, we called, we wrote, we failed to support their campaigns and otherwise expressed out displeasure at their drift to the left in governing. Many of those who were still standing on the right heard us and “for the moment” have decided that perhaps they need to get back on the wagon that brung um!

So all I am saying is government of the people and by the people means that sometimes you have to speak out and make your voices heard. We are doing that and you see the consequences. The great thing about our system is that is it supposed to be a 3 ring circus with no one arena having more power than the other. In the Congressional arena, we have several acts performing all at once and it can be frustrating but it sure beats the heck out of fascism or dictatorships huh?

We have seen what happens when Congress fails to put the the brakes on the Executive branch and vice versa. I for one am glad there is a party of “whoa” in Congress at this time.

I mean, why should we make my grandchildren pay for more of today’s government funded abortions under the guise of stimulating the economy? Serioulsy? Sure, you may respond that provsion was pulled out and my response is that it was pulled out because of the objections of the party of “whoa.”

“In a world founded on unicorn farts, the sanctimonious have no need of books.”

Indeed.

Answer? It’s much more dangerous for Repubs to stonewall.

Question: Does it matter whether the stimulus plan helps or not?

If 2 years goes by and the democrats add a couple trillion to the deficit with stimulus plans the GOP opposed and then the economy has nothing to show for it, then whose $h!t stinks?

I think the play-by-play on the cpngressional gamesmanship misses the point a bit. Like it or not, the big luxury of the minority party is to behave just as the GOP has currently done. Would they have opposed this bill unanimously if doing so would have jeopardized it passing the house? I kinda doubt it.

There is not a whole lot the GOP can do to stand in the way of the democratic majority as Obama tries to enact whatever his agenda turns out to be. We’ll see a few more minor tweaks to the stimulus,. but it’ll pass sooner than later. Count on it. Look for 2 or 3 showy tweaks to appease a handful of GOP senators who probably already have been approached about playing ball. The GOP already knows that they don’t get to dictate the way this money gets spent, they lost that right when they lost their majority and then the Presidency.

But this isn’t the one where we’ll see a battle royale. That’ll be when healthcare reform comes under the microscope. I think you can count on a single-payerish plan being passed in way that better suits the dems than the repubs. This reform will become urgent as all those extra unemployed folks run out of COBRA coverage.

That one will be a real show. The smart republicans are already looking for roles at the table on this one, because the GOP unanimity will certainly collapse by then. Look for everyone on the GOP side who plans to run for the 2012 nom to oppose it no matter its form.