Right, I’m the partisan. Actually, I think I’ve seen enough of your drivel to tell that you are sinply against whatever is trying to be done. What a tough position, no thinking needed, just always negative. Grow up.

BTW, I voted for Ron Paul… that’s how partisan I am, and I agree this bill is a disaster. I’m just not so childish as to throw a temper tantrum and spew morinc Limbaugh style drivel.

As far as the ProPublica piece and other claims of how “laden” the bill is with pork, some people actually looked at what the bill contained. It needs improvements. But most of the people arguing against it the loudest are the same ones whose only solution seems to be more business tax cuts, ignoring the demand side of the business equation. This damages their credibility.

And if we are going to speak of mindless hypocrisy, let us discuss people who think that something as simple as “divided we stand, united we fall” makes for a good concept of government and then twists a quote from Thomas Jefferson to support it. After all, Jefferson did not apply that saying to government but to religion. He said

…the maxim of civil government
being reversed in that of
religion, where its true form
is, “divided we stand, united
we fall.”

It’s kind of a fish in the barrel exercise, but what the heck…

The only thing that I used Cato to cite in this post, was a list of signatories to a statement – economists, including 3 nobel prize winners that signed on to a statement refuting the Democrats and Obama’s lie claim that there was virtual unanimity among economists supporting their Keynesian ideological dogma. Just a list of names and their universities. Over 300 in the ad and 200 or so more that signed on after the ad. That was the Cato citation – a list of names that anyone could check out.

What are Mario and Jim claiming? That these people don’t exist? That Cato made them up? It is laughable.

I’ll also note that many on the left had absolutely no problem citing Cato’s excellent scholarship during the Bush administration, when they were doing fantastic work documenting the Bush/Cheney constitution trampling executive power grab and the Republican budget busting spending spree. It is only now that the Democrats are in charge that Cato suddenly has no credibility.

I guess I am not surprised by the hypocrisy we are now seeing from the left. I just didn’t expect it to be so blatant, so mindless and so early in the administration.

Sorry folks, but it is a logical fallacy to say “Oh that came from CATO it must be wrong.’

The fact that the stimulus package is still laden with pork barrel projects is absolutely disgusting. Both the Sunlight Foundation and ProPublica have been doing a commendable job of showing us how this Congress is planning to piss away our money here’s an interactive map of the House version.

If this was so vital to the Nation, you’d think they could pass a bill without a few members pork projects, or are we to stop calling that pork and start calling it “economic stimulus”? If that is the case then Ted Stevens and Robert Byrd should be acclaimed as visionary champions for combating recession in their own states for so long.

The fact remains that no-one in Congress has come forward with a straight face and described how this is a reasonable measure as part of a coherent strategy toward a specific goal. How much money is this really going to take? we’ve spent 800 ish billion already. Congress wants another 800-ish already. Krugman has stated that this would take around 2-3 trillion.

Finally – lets not forget that all of this money that we are spending is coming from China/petro-dictators. So the choice is, do we as a nation want to keep borrowing from China/petro-dictators to fund a way of life that seems unsustainable – or do we take this opportunity to evaluate the situation and plot a new way forward (vision as apposed to mere sensory reaction).

And you have no idea what I can and cannot do. I, on the other hand, know that you have chosen a simplistic, black and white, simple answers for simple minds philosophy to govern your overall political ideas. In this overall framework government with the existing parties will never accomplish anything worthwhile for the country. And since you also consider the Cato Institute capable of having good ideas, that also tends to show a reverence for the reality challenged who think that libertarianism would actually function in a nation of over 300 million that exists on a world of 6+ billion.

I will not debate global warming in this thread except to say that it is a false debate. When 99.9 of the scientific community is on one side of an issue, it’s not a real debate.

As for the stimulus bill debate, well that one is as easy to understand. Reps held the levers of government for 8 years and much of the current economic crisis is due to their failed policies. Now that they lost an election in which people called for change, Republicans are acting as if they have all the answers. Please.

We already knew that there are economists on both sides of this issue. Nothing new there. It was Obama and the Democrats who were trying to assert that “There is no disagreement that we need action by our government, a recovery plan that will help to jumpstart the economy.” That statement is not true, as shown by Cato. This cannot be argued. It is a false statement.

One of the six economists the reporters quote in the WaPo article is Greg Mankiw, who I also link in my post. This is what Greg Mankiw says in the WaPo article. “…more time should be taken to craft spending programs that would not be wasteful.” I agree with that. A lot more time.

FWIW I just sent this e-mail to the reporters that wrote that piece – Steven Mufson and Lori Montgomery:

Steven, Lori,

Do you have any support for the use of the word “overwhelming” in this statement:

“While economists remain divided on the role of government generally, an overwhelming number from both parties are saying that a government stimulus package — even a flawed one — is urgently needed to help prevent a steeper slide in the economy.”

Because I don’t see anything in your story that supports that assertion. The article only offers anecdotal quotes from a handful of economists.

In light of this Cato Institute ad:

http://www.cato.org/fiscalreality

– that has hundreds of economists – including 3 Nobel prize winners – as signatories to a statement saying a gigantic stimulus will not help this recession – I would think that a characterization of “overwhelming” support from economists would demand some sort of numerical quantification. At least an explanation from you of what justifies your use of that characterization seems in order.

Perhaps I am confused. Is this reporting or just an Op-Ed piece?

Regards, mw

I’ll report back if I get any reply.

GOP Deathwatch

Libby is guilty

It’s the war, stupid

Hastert has to go

Why vote Dem in ’06

Big Spending, Big Deficit, Big Government Republicans

Bush’s bloated big government spending

I never voted for Bush43. I voted for Gore, Kerry, Straight Dem in ’06, and McCain. You shouldn’t project your own limited worldview on everyone around you. Just because you are a hero worshiping partisan, does not mean that everyone else is.

“While economists remain divided on the role of government generally, an overwhelming number from both parties are saying that a government stimulus package — even a flawed one — is urgently needed to help prevent a steeper slide in the economy.

Many economists say the precise size and shape of the package developing in Congress matter less than the timing, and that any delay is damaging.”

But hey, why don’t we just ignore them…and while we’re at it why don’t we just ignore the tens of thousands who are losing jobs and homes…and let’s follow the Cato Institute’s inspired wisdom and just reduce “the burden of government” and cross our fingers and hope that the economy magically fixes itself.

Playing politics while the country suffers. It doesn’t get any lower than that.

I take a more measured approached as I explained in my comment on Brad’s post.

“If our government was functioning the way it should, every single spending initiative in this bill would be carefully considered on its own merits and whether it is a good use of taxpayer funds. This portion may very well be a legitimate expenditure. If so, let it be debated on its own merits in the heavily Democratic majority congress.

There are aspects of the spending bill that I think are good and valid uses of taxpayer money. Some of the infrastructure projects. Certainly upgrading the electric transmission backbone. Why is it unreasonable to ask our representatives to carefully consider each expenditure of yours, mine, our children and grandchildren’s money on their merits and vote for them on that basis?

Instead we get the repeated incantnation of an ideological canon of liberal Keyensian dogma, chanted at every opportunity. We have to spend just because we have to spend, and it makes no difference if the expenditure is needed, understood or completely wasted.

Sorry if that does not fit your pre-conceived notions. Feel free to continue the irrational ad-hominen attacks while calling me irrational. I understand that this is the best you can do.

It’s just that MW labors under the concept that government should never do anything and that a modern society will still function just fine. In other words, expect very little rational thought. It’s just a knee jerk ideology thing with him.

The Cato Institute is a libertarian think tank and while they definitely have some liberal ideals, their philosophy on fiscal matters is pure conservative ideology (e.g. restricted government intervention in the market place, etc.).

There is a consensus among economists that something must be done to kick-start the economy. You might want to argue on specific items included in the current stimulus package…fine. But to deny that there is not a dire need to infuse massive amounts of money into the economy is to deny that we are in a midst of an economic crisis. If the report that 600,000 jobs were lost in January is not enough for you to realize this fact, then I don’t what is.

Mark Zandi, Moody’s chief economist and former economic adviser to John McCain had this to say,

“The only source of growth in our economy today literally is government spending . There’s only one way out for us in a graceful and reasonably graceful way and that is for our government to be aggressive on every front.”

Zandi clearly shows how the answer is NOT tax cuts but instead government spending.

If you’re interested, I speak more of this in a post I wrote at http://mariopiperni.com/republican-party/stimulus-bill-is-a-goalmost.php

The bottom line is that people are losing their homes and their jobs. The economy is in a dive and guy like you are playing politics. Disgusting.

http://www.ventpark.com/vent/2009/01/28/democratic-government/

I don’t mean to be all nope in the face of chope (change + hope), but the inefficiencies in this “plan” (if “plan” is synonymous with some sort of national bowel movement) are grotesque. With our current indebtedness we are waving the middle finger in face of monetary melt down. Honestly, Obama is acting like an amateur over committed to pot. I thought he was elected for his “judgment”, even “wisdom” and “temperament” — now he’s saying that he was elected ushering a massive ill-conceived legislative convulsion of hodge-podge spending. Oh the man, we’re going to be feeling the chope for a long time…