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	<title>Comments on: Recovery.gov Launches</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2009/02/18/recoverygov-launches/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/02/18/recoverygov-launches/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: DMAC57</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/02/18/recoverygov-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-436726</link>
		<dc:creator>DMAC57</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=13678#comment-436726</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget stimuluswatch.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t forget stimuluswatch.org</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/02/18/recoverygov-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-436725</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=13678#comment-436725</guid>
		<description>The only transparency is by implication, and the implication is itself a fraud. There is NO way to measure net &quot;jobs saved or created&quot; by the &quot;stimulus&quot; bill. It&#039;s still nice to have some the info site up, just foolish to place any faith in the speculative claims made there.

No way at all to reliably measure &quot;jobs saved,&quot; and claiming that any &lt;i&gt;post hoc&lt;/i&gt; increase in employment is due to policies and spending is still not honest, as reliably tracing the origins of incremental employment to specific policies is simply not feasible. It also requires ignoring the flip side of jobs not created in the first place by policies and resultant taxation. 

Example: If there is an increase in 500K jobs over 12 months, the admin will claim credit--but it&#039;s entirely possible the increase would have been twice as large &lt;i&gt;without&lt;/i&gt; the policies/spending, so the true economic result of the policies/spending would be a 500K &lt;i&gt;loss&lt;/i&gt;. More likely is continued erosion of employement extending several months past the &quot;bottom&quot; of the recession--and then the admin will claim they prevented it from being even worse and thus &quot;saved&quot; XXX jobs, likewise an economically unsupportable and econometrically unverifiable claim.

Of course, it&#039;s not as if every other admin hasn&#039;t made similar claims. The silly thing is that people believe them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only transparency is by implication, and the implication is itself a fraud. There is NO way to measure net &#8220;jobs saved or created&#8221; by the &#8220;stimulus&#8221; bill. It&#8217;s still nice to have some the info site up, just foolish to place any faith in the speculative claims made there.</p>
<p>No way at all to reliably measure &#8220;jobs saved,&#8221; and claiming that any <i>post hoc</i> increase in employment is due to policies and spending is still not honest, as reliably tracing the origins of incremental employment to specific policies is simply not feasible. It also requires ignoring the flip side of jobs not created in the first place by policies and resultant taxation. </p>
<p>Example: If there is an increase in 500K jobs over 12 months, the admin will claim credit&#8211;but it&#8217;s entirely possible the increase would have been twice as large <i>without</i> the policies/spending, so the true economic result of the policies/spending would be a 500K <i>loss</i>. More likely is continued erosion of employement extending several months past the &#8220;bottom&#8221; of the recession&#8211;and then the admin will claim they prevented it from being even worse and thus &#8220;saved&#8221; XXX jobs, likewise an economically unsupportable and econometrically unverifiable claim.</p>
<p>Of course, it&#8217;s not as if every other admin hasn&#8217;t made similar claims. The silly thing is that people believe them.</p>
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		<title>By: gerryf</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/02/18/recoverygov-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-436718</link>
		<dc:creator>gerryf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 03:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=13678#comment-436718</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Tully on this one...We&#039;ve gone to job creation to job saving--how do you measure jobs saved? C&#039;mon.

Depending on the moment, George Bush claimed he created 2.4 million, 4.8 million or I don&#039;t even remember his other claims. And with some deft mathmatics he could justify his numbers but no one could ever figure out where those jobs were.  

Same with Obama..the guy in the White House gets to TRY and shape the reality, but until we actually start seeing dropping unemployment and underemployment, it&#039;s just words.

Call me skeptical....I&#039;m am hopeful, but so far his recovery bill is anemic, his bank bill a joke, and his decision to follow W. on more than a few War on Terror issues has me greviously concerned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Tully on this one&#8230;We&#8217;ve gone to job creation to job saving&#8211;how do you measure jobs saved? C&#8217;mon.</p>
<p>Depending on the moment, George Bush claimed he created 2.4 million, 4.8 million or I don&#8217;t even remember his other claims. And with some deft mathmatics he could justify his numbers but no one could ever figure out where those jobs were.  </p>
<p>Same with Obama..the guy in the White House gets to TRY and shape the reality, but until we actually start seeing dropping unemployment and underemployment, it&#8217;s just words.</p>
<p>Call me skeptical&#8230;.I&#8217;m am hopeful, but so far his recovery bill is anemic, his bank bill a joke, and his decision to follow W. on more than a few War on Terror issues has me greviously concerned.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy from NJ</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/02/18/recoverygov-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-436717</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy from NJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 03:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=13678#comment-436717</guid>
		<description>Tully, 

What?  You&#039;ve never heard of Psychohistory?   Seriously though, it&#039;s a good idea that implies transparency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tully, </p>
<p>What?  You&#8217;ve never heard of Psychohistory?   Seriously though, it&#8217;s a good idea that implies transparency.</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/02/18/recoverygov-launches/comment-page-1/#comment-436716</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 03:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=13678#comment-436716</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Thereâ€™s also a map that details how many jobs in each state will be created or saved in the next 2 years. &lt;/i&gt;

And if you believe those figures, or even that it&#039;s possible to make such a prediction within an entire order of magnitude, I have a watch to sell you. Also a bridge, and some lovely water-front property in Florida.

Seriously, it&#039;s simply blue-sky BS. But it is nice to have the linkage to all 1,000-plus pages of the bill so we can red it, since Congress didn&#039;t do so before passing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Thereâ€™s also a map that details how many jobs in each state will be created or saved in the next 2 years. </i></p>
<p>And if you believe those figures, or even that it&#8217;s possible to make such a prediction within an entire order of magnitude, I have a watch to sell you. Also a bridge, and some lovely water-front property in Florida.</p>
<p>Seriously, it&#8217;s simply blue-sky BS. But it is nice to have the linkage to all 1,000-plus pages of the bill so we can red it, since Congress didn&#8217;t do so before passing it.</p>
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