Comments on: Pension Funds Set To Go Belly Up? http://donklephant.com/2009/03/04/pension-funds-set-to-go-belly-up/ Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:46:37 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: SaneInSF http://donklephant.com/2009/03/04/pension-funds-set-to-go-belly-up/comment-page-1/#comment-437273 SaneInSF Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:43:15 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=13864#comment-437273 As a San Franciscan, I can tell you what the problem is. It's not A) or B). It's actually C) Unions with political power are able to lobby for ridiculously rich pension plans that are beyond the means for the municipalities and states to be able to support long term. If you saw how little it takes to be eligible for a full pension here in San Francisco and the State of California, it would make you cry. It's basically a rape of taxpayers to pay for these unsustainable benefits. And the quid pro quo is that these unions are the foot soldiers for reelection of these corrupt politicians. Thank you SEIU. May your organization go to hell. As a San Franciscan, I can tell you what the problem is. It’s not A) or B).

It’s actually C) Unions with political power are able to lobby for ridiculously rich pension plans that are beyond the means for the municipalities and states to be able to support long term. If you saw how little it takes to be eligible for a full pension here in San Francisco and the State of California, it would make you cry. It’s basically a rape of taxpayers to pay for these unsustainable benefits. And the quid pro quo is that these unions are the foot soldiers for reelection of these corrupt politicians.

Thank you SEIU. May your organization go to hell.

]]> By: kranky kritter http://donklephant.com/2009/03/04/pension-funds-set-to-go-belly-up/comment-page-1/#comment-437224 kranky kritter Thu, 05 Mar 2009 14:12:04 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=13864#comment-437224 I'm pretty sure what's wrong with it is that for 3 decades overly generous fixed-benefit plans have by and large never been realistically adjusted for shifting demographics. The fault lies with all of us who lacked the will to face this. The GOP was IMO always talking out its arses in suggesting that we could all flourish by investing privately in stocks without govt involvment to ensure a reasonable baseline. On average, people just aren't smart enough or prudent enough. I never supported anything but allowing Americans to personally manage some small component of their SS contributions, above a baseline guarantee. Because it's good practice and good education. But ultimately the issue of what the GOP wanted to do with SS is a distractor. The much larger and more important issue facing America with pensions, SS and the currently economy is this: Americans individually and America collectively as a nation both have to figure out right now what our actual financial means really are, absent bubbles, bad advice from the financially unscrupulous, and unrealistic expectations about future growth. And then we have to live within the actual means that we really have. The American dream only tells us what we want. Ruthlessly and scrupulously determining our means helps us figure out what we really truly CAN have. That's something that my parents generation was extremely well aware of, and what my and future generations are now faced with refamiliarizing ourselves to. I’m pretty sure what’s wrong with it is that for 3 decades overly generous fixed-benefit plans have by and large never been realistically adjusted for shifting demographics. The fault lies with all of us who lacked the will to face this.

The GOP was IMO always talking out its arses in suggesting that we could all flourish by investing privately in stocks without govt involvment to ensure a reasonable baseline. On average, people just aren’t smart enough or prudent enough. I never supported anything but allowing Americans to personally manage some small component of their SS contributions, above a baseline guarantee. Because it’s good practice and good education.

But ultimately the issue of what the GOP wanted to do with SS is a distractor. The much larger and more important issue facing America with pensions, SS and the currently economy is this: Americans individually and America collectively as a nation both have to figure out right now what our actual financial means really are, absent bubbles, bad advice from the financially unscrupulous, and unrealistic expectations about future growth. And then we have to live within the actual means that we really have.

The American dream only tells us what we want. Ruthlessly and scrupulously determining our means helps us figure out what we really truly CAN have. That’s something that my parents generation was extremely well aware of, and what my and future generations are now faced with refamiliarizing ourselves to.

]]> By: Trescml http://donklephant.com/2009/03/04/pension-funds-set-to-go-belly-up/comment-page-1/#comment-437222 Trescml Thu, 05 Mar 2009 13:54:23 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=13864#comment-437222 This is not only an issue for public pensions but the few remaining corporate ones as well. Both government and corporations have a really good reason to not contribute money to pension funds (it can be spent elsewhere). For the short term gains of the stock market they take a long term risk. We are finding that risk is not something that we as a society deal with well. Risk mitigation costs money. There is nothing wrong with investing pension money in the stock market. It just needs to be balanced with risk mitigation. This problem will only get worse because nobody want put money into pensions since a solid pension doesn't buy you votes or make you more popular with your stockholders. In the end you have the government that will bail you out. As we have seen elsewhere the taxpayers are taking the risks and getting none of the benefits. This is not only an issue for public pensions but the few remaining corporate ones as well. Both government and corporations have a really good reason to not contribute money to pension funds (it can be spent elsewhere). For the short term gains of the stock market they take a long term risk. We are finding that risk is not something that we as a society deal with well. Risk mitigation costs money. There is nothing wrong with investing pension money in the stock market. It just needs to be balanced with risk mitigation.

This problem will only get worse because nobody want put money into pensions since a solid pension doesn’t buy you votes or make you more popular with your stockholders. In the end you have the government that will bail you out. As we have seen elsewhere the taxpayers are taking the risks and getting none of the benefits.

]]> By: Doug Mataconis http://donklephant.com/2009/03/04/pension-funds-set-to-go-belly-up/comment-page-1/#comment-437221 Doug Mataconis Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:16:40 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=13864#comment-437221 We're already on the hook for this one. It's called the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation and the potential liabilities are in the tens of trillions of dollars. Tell me again how we're gonna pay for all this ? We’re already on the hook for this one.

It’s called the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation and the potential liabilities are in the tens of trillions of dollars.

Tell me again how we’re gonna pay for all this ?

]]> By: Jimmy the Dhimmi http://donklephant.com/2009/03/04/pension-funds-set-to-go-belly-up/comment-page-1/#comment-437206 Jimmy the Dhimmi Thu, 05 Mar 2009 02:12:20 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=13864#comment-437206 Save your sarcasm for when social security and medicare go belly-up as well. Save your sarcasm for when social security and medicare go belly-up as well.

]]> By: gerryf http://donklephant.com/2009/03/04/pension-funds-set-to-go-belly-up/comment-page-1/#comment-437200 gerryf Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:41:44 +0000 http://donklephant.com/?p=13864#comment-437200 You see, you just don't get it. If we all just did it the way the GOP wanted us to when Bush wanted to get rid of scoial security, we would all just be investing that money ourselves! We don't need any highly educated accounting crooks to lose our money for us; we can lose it all on our own. (I am beginning to hate myself--about all I can muster these days are cynical and sarcastic responses..sometimes a combination of both) You see, you just don’t get it. If we all just did it the way the GOP wanted us to when Bush wanted to get rid of scoial security, we would all just be investing that money ourselves!

We don’t need any highly educated accounting crooks to lose our money for us; we can lose it all on our own.

(I am beginning to hate myself–about all I can muster these days are cynical and sarcastic responses..sometimes a combination of both)

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