Comments on: Dumb Ethanol Policies Continue Despite Evidence

By: Crux Felder

Crux Felder — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 02:16:03 +0000

Senator McCain won my lasting admiration last year when he refused to cave in on his opposition to corn ethanol. He was the only candidate who stated the simple truth. Corn ethanol is a farm subsidy and a big one. It takes more fossil fuel energy to create ethanol than we get back from the fuel, after the fertilizers, tractor fuel, transportation costs and distillation is factored in. This principled stand cost him Iowa and Indiana in the general election.

By: ShortWoman» Blog Archive » How I would love to shut up about health insurance reform

Sat, 30 May 2009 21:01:56 +0000

[...] Closing: Ethanol; how are we supposed to prevent identity theft when the IRS is busy selling our tax info?; Plunge [...]

By: Tully

Tully — Wed, 27 May 2009 14:45:10 +0000

Seriously, do you think I wouldn’t wait until you were in rush-hour traffic and then unplug you? Just for grins? :-)

By: kranky kritter

kranky kritter — Tue, 26 May 2009 18:29:27 +0000

Oh yeah, Tully? What if I have a car with a 50 mile extension cord? What then?

I mean, what could go wrong? LOL

By: The Environmental Third Rail | Living the American Green

The Environmental Third Rail | Living the American Green — Tue, 26 May 2009 17:22:25 +0000

[...] about anything that might touch the status quo of cash for that cause.Â It doesn’t matter if it’s good green policy (and evidence suggests that it is not) — it matters if it is good [...]

By: Tully

Tully — Tue, 26 May 2009 16:57:41 +0000

As I’ve pointed out here and elsewhere for years, the “net energy loser” argument is somewhat hollow. The correct metric is the unit dollar cost-per-mile of portable usable energy as delivered to the consumer. The goal is portable usable energy, and comparing non-portable inputs directly to portable outputs is a patently false comparison. Apples and oranges.

In addition, there are some serious flaws in the assumptions used in those “truly independent studies” (snicker) by Patzel/Pimentel. Why, one might almost think they started with their conclusions, then struggled mightily to justify them. Less biased/flawed research suggests a net energy gain of 40% or so for grain ethanol production. (Which is still not great, but is a demonstrable “profit” in energy terms, not a loss. However, see also point above about non-portable inputs versus portable outputs.) Some other methods of ethanol/methanol production achieve better energy conversion and production efficiencies. It’s still apples and oranges.

By: Chris

Chris — Tue, 26 May 2009 03:32:30 +0000

I was just going to say that you can produce ethanol from many other things than corn, which is probably one of the worst.

By: ExiledIndependent

ExiledIndependent — Tue, 26 May 2009 00:54:31 +0000

/agree, Justin. All crop-based ethanol at this point is a losing proposition (sorry Nick). There’s too much opportunity cost and financial impact on other industry (i.e. food manufacturers) going against it. Why not dump a couple billion into supporting oxygen-carbon batteries (cuz Lithium is another losing proposition, considering the supply. You think oil is scarce?) etc.

By: Nick Benjamin

Nick Benjamin — Tue, 26 May 2009 00:08:48 +0000

Sugar cane Ethanol is a lot smarter than the corn-based stuff. With corn you have to strip away lots of vitamins, minerals, and nutrients to get to the sugar. Which takes energy. But sugar cane doesn’t have any of that healthy stuff mixed in.

Don’t blame Iowa for Ethanol’s existence. Iowa produces a lot of corn, and nothing but corn. So support for big corn is a good way to win the Iowa Caucus. But you can easily win a Presidential nomination without winning Iowa. Dukakis lost Iowa, as did Clinton in ‘92. Bush I beat Reagan there in 1980, but lost to Dole in ‘88. Most recently McCain came in fourth in Iowa.

But lots of other states also produce corn. And nobody’s won the White House without one of them (Ohio) since JFK.

By: PunditKix

PunditKix — Mon, 25 May 2009 20:03:59 +0000

Donklephant Â» Dumb Ethanol Policies Continue Despite Evidence…

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