Sorry I don’t really have more to contribute. Maybe an apology from the state of California for Orly. Sorry guys!

The document provided to date is now officialy a fake and the person who perpetrated it on the interned has admitted this. NO above comment mentioned THIS.

Where’s the beef?

“If you polled certain segments of the black population (say… over 40 and lower on the economic spectrum) on those same 13 descriptors, they would answer much in the same way as white southerners who are also lower on the economic spectrum.”

That about right guys?

My response would be that you’re both right… but whats your point? These are known factors. The only thing I would say is that if either of you think that your tribe (con or lib) is less judgmental than the other, you’ve got the blinders on. All ideologies come with a set of perceptual filters and different sets of traits that they judge people on.

The racist types are attracted more to the right because the conservative worldview is easier to twist in a way that includes other races as ‘alien’, and therefore, to one degree or another, bad. But the various breeds of radicals (anarchists, extreme environmentalists, antiglobalists, communists, etc) tend to be attracted to liberalism because of its knee jerk reaction to side with whoever the perceived ‘little guy’ is (hence how its a negative label – for liberals – to put the word ‘big’ in front of anything). Really just depends on who we consider ‘US’ or ‘THEM’..

I will agree that if blacks always voted 90% for a black candidate that would racist. But they don’t they go for Democrats by 90 points every time. For obvious reasons most of the time those Dems are black, but even in cases where it’s a choice between a white De and a black Republican they go for the Democrat. That’s why Michael Steele and Alan Keyes have won a single election between them, despite being well-financed and well-known.

Blacks support Dems in overwhelming numbers because they agree with the Dems in overwhelming numbers. They tend to be very dovish, economically liberal, and are relatively unsympathetic to law enforcement. Even relatively conservative black folks like Condi Rice and Colin Powell support Affirmative Action. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out they both support hate-crimes legislation too.

BTW Tully I clicked on MR’s link He’s referring to a jpg.

Of course there were different groupings. Blacks voted overwhelmingly for Obama. Hispanics voted heavily for Obama. Whites overall (I’m going from memory) split. Women of all races for Obama. White southerners for McCain. White mountain states for McCain.

So that you don’t waste time denying that Limbaugh’s a racist:

I mean, let’s face it, we didn’t have slavery in this country for over 100 years because it was a bad thing. Quite the opposite: slavery built the South. I’m not saying we should bring it back; I’m just saying it had its merits. For one thing, the streets were safer after dark.

The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice robberies.

Feel free to deny that he speaks for the party, but that will be followed by the parade of groveling Republicans apologizing for offending Rush.

In what context?

I’m not “continuing to push the race thing.” I’ve stated my belief that the birthers are racists. I’ve stated the fact — acknowledged by anyone who knows anything about the last 40 years of American politics — that the GOP has exploited race for electoral profit.

In fact it’s the birthers who are pushing the race thing. Portions of the GOP — including the semi-official spokesman, Rush Limbaugh — are pushing the race thing.

Responses are then broken down by “All whites,” “White Democrats,” “White Independents” and “White Republican.”

There are 13 adjectives. In all 13 Republicans were more negative toward blacks than were democrats.

13 out of 13. 100% of the time the Republicans took a more negative view of blacks than did Democrats.

Dude, check your browser. Did it not open the big giant sidebar window that showed question after question on racial attitudes divided by “white democrats” and “white repubs” and “white independents?”

Don’t call me a liar because your window didn’t open or you didn’t scroll down.

The rest of your response is empty posturing and straw men.

however, on the whole, they sure as hell wheel and deal in it. why do you think st. ronnie kicked off his prez campaign in philadelphia, mississippi?

as a subtle wink to the white racists. don’t take my word for it. take merle and earl black’s.

The question posed above is why this ‘story’ doesn’t go away.

That’s a simple one. I don’t care if its racism, political beliefs, cultural differences or he just talks funny… people believe what they want to believe, especially when it involves something negative about someone they despise. Remember the falsified documents Dan Rather and company didn’t do due diligence in researching over at CBS? Do you know how many people still believe that recounts showed that Gore won Florida in 2000? Throw in those people who still think that 9/11 was an inside job… oh, and we can’t forget the New World Order folks, and the Bilgeberger Group, or whatever insane stuff they babble on about.

Notice how the vast majority of the people who believe these things are those who already hate the person implicated? Its the way we’re wired… we’re pack/tribe animals. We naturally throw up nearly impossible psychological walls to believing good things about those we view as against our tribe, and see things ‘between the lines’ of people who disagree with us… and find things that we couldn’t possibly actually know, but are sure they are true.

… like Tully claiming my argument for taxing the consumption of certain unhealthy things to pay for health care reforms as being a moral argument. He couldn’t just disagree with me, he had to actually make it personal… because that is what people do when they get riled up… they turn things that MIGHT be true, into things that ARE true, whether they have proof or not.

Its really just a amplified version of why its so hard to change someone’s mind once belief comes into play. Beliefs put a filter on the world. Sometimes that ends up being useful, sometimes it… well… makes you believe crazy things like the president is the Manchurian Candidate.

I sincerely doubt any poll of “most democrats” would demonstrate most of them associated whites with bad things. Most Democrats are white. And the black ones don’t exactly go easy on themselves.

Rich whites probably. But that’s not racist so much as classist.

As for the debate on whether more racists are Republican than Dem I’d have to say yes.

There’s no direct polling data on this issue, but the circumstantial evidence is pretty hard to refute.

1) Most Americans are white, therefore most American Racists are probably white.

2) The Republican party is almost 100% white. The only Black GOP Congressman quit after Bush killed a pork-defense program in his district, and still hasn’t returned to politics. It should be noted that he was theoretically an important person in the House hierarchy, and the Crusader Artillery system was the sole casualty of Bush defense cuts. IMO J. C. Watts got elected, they gave him a fancy title, and then totally ignored him. Kind of like what’s happening to Steel right now.

3) People who study white racism find it’s strongly correlated with right-wing activism. The Council of Conservative Citizens is explicitly racist, but it frequently manages to dupe non-racist Republicans into supporting it because the rest of it’s platform is right-wing. The John Birchers ain’t leftist, either. The only possibly Democratically aligned racist groups the Southern Poverty Law Center watches are neo-pagan skinheads (probably nonpartisan, or National Socialists), and black separatists. The latter are probably Dems or go for a third-party, but given that blacks only make up 14% of the country it’s unlikely they are a majority of the racists.

Note that the folks who do the most to whitewash the history of racism in this country tend to be GOP. Haley Barbour’s Christmas list includes at least one person who wants to honor Nathan Bedford Forrest with a statue, and his staff actually addressed the card to “Wizardess.”

4) Republican states never elect black guys to high office. The two blacks elected to Governor’s seats were elected in Virginia (GOP-leaning), and Massachusetts. MA and IL are the only states to have elected blacks to the US Senate.

This is despite the fact that more than a quarter of the talent pool in LA, MS, and AL is black. Admittedly Louisiana elected a nonwhite to the Governor’s chair recently, but it’s still pretty surprising that IL (15% black), and MA (5% black) both found black guys smart enough for high office before Louisiana (32% black) did.

The birther bill has 9 co-sponsors.

7 are from the former Confederacy: Texas, Tennessee and Virginia.

1 is from Indiana, a virtual southern state. That would be famous mental case Dan Burton. He of the melon-shooting fame.

And 1, God help me, is my own idiot Congressman from Orange County, CA.

Amazingly — amazingly I say — none from New England. Or the midwest. Or the northeast. Mostly old white southerners. From overwhelmingly white districts. Almost all from rural white districts.

So I guess white conservatives from all-white rural southern districts are just really, really into documentation. And it’s just coincidence that their interest was piqued on the occasion of our first black president.