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	<title>Comments on: Lou Dobbs&#8217; Ratings Drop Like They&#8217;re Hot</title>
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	<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-529761</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 03:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-529761</guid>
		<description>The way I was reading it, he was implying that Lou should be fired for having no journalistic integrity... but that may just be my opinion slipping through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way I was reading it, he was implying that Lou should be fired for having no journalistic integrity&#8230; but that may just be my opinion slipping through.</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-529605</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-529605</guid>
		<description>Point being that Justin is trying to ascribe a causation (Dobbs birfer* airtime) to an observed event (Dobbs ratings drop). BUT ... &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;correlation does not imply causation&lt;/a&gt;, and there&#039;s been no evidentiary showing at all that the two are causally related. (Nor any for your straw man either.)

Testing the Justin &quot;birfer&quot; hypothesis by observing the wider sample of all cable news shows on the top three cable news nets, we find all three top cable news nets show declining overall ratings and most cable news shows exhibit similar drops in a reasonably similar time period. Which argues very strongly indeed against Justin&#039;s &quot;birfer&quot; hypothesis for Dobb&#039;s ratings decline. 

Extending to Justin&#039;s implied assertion that Dobbs should be fired (a subject he has previously visited on other grounds) for his ratings drop, a comparison of Dobbs&#039; ratings and his nearest direct competition (Matthews, Hardball) is apropos, and shows that Dobbs is still winning his time slot over Hardball.  Even accepting the ratings drop hypothesis (and it&#039;s not a bad one) CNN is not going to dump Dobbs until/unless he tanks in his time slot against Hardball. 

Likewise, O&#039;Reilly&#039;s kicking Olbermann&#039;s ass in their time slot, gaining viewers while Olbermann is losing them, yet Olbermann is not on the chopping block when by Justin&#039;s logic or as a strict take on the ratings/competition hypothesis he should be. This strongly suggests something wrong with the hypothesis, some bad assumption either overt or implied.

I&#039;d venture the implied assumption is that they are actually in direct competition for viewers, when they are not. They are aimed at different target demographics. Fox right, CNN mixed populist/centrist, and MSNBC left. So CNN is marginally competing for viewers against both Fox and MSNBC, but Fox and MSNBC are not directly competing with each other. At least, not for the same viewership -- all are of course competing for advertiser dollars.

[* -- Why, yes, I &lt;i&gt;am&lt;/i&gt; mocking Birfers. Also Trufers.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point being that Justin is trying to ascribe a causation (Dobbs birfer* airtime) to an observed event (Dobbs ratings drop). BUT &#8230; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation" >correlation does not imply causation</a>, and there&#8217;s been no evidentiary showing at all that the two are causally related. (Nor any for your straw man either.)</p>
<p>Testing the Justin &#8220;birfer&#8221; hypothesis by observing the wider sample of all cable news shows on the top three cable news nets, we find all three top cable news nets show declining overall ratings and most cable news shows exhibit similar drops in a reasonably similar time period. Which argues very strongly indeed against Justin&#8217;s &#8220;birfer&#8221; hypothesis for Dobb&#8217;s ratings decline. </p>
<p>Extending to Justin&#8217;s implied assertion that Dobbs should be fired (a subject he has previously visited on other grounds) for his ratings drop, a comparison of Dobbs&#8217; ratings and his nearest direct competition (Matthews, Hardball) is apropos, and shows that Dobbs is still winning his time slot over Hardball.  Even accepting the ratings drop hypothesis (and it&#8217;s not a bad one) CNN is not going to dump Dobbs until/unless he tanks in his time slot against Hardball. </p>
<p>Likewise, O&#8217;Reilly&#8217;s kicking Olbermann&#8217;s ass in their time slot, gaining viewers while Olbermann is losing them, yet Olbermann is not on the chopping block when by Justin&#8217;s logic or as a strict take on the ratings/competition hypothesis he should be. This strongly suggests something wrong with the hypothesis, some bad assumption either overt or implied.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d venture the implied assumption is that they are actually in direct competition for viewers, when they are not. They are aimed at different target demographics. Fox right, CNN mixed populist/centrist, and MSNBC left. So CNN is marginally competing for viewers against both Fox and MSNBC, but Fox and MSNBC are not directly competing with each other. At least, not for the same viewership &#8212; all are of course competing for advertiser dollars.</p>
<p>[* -- Why, yes, I <i>am</i> mocking Birfers. Also Trufers.]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-529557</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-529557</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s your point tully?  i guess you could link the fact that crazy bill actually has called out the birthers to his rising ratings?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s your point tully?  i guess you could link the fact that crazy bill actually has called out the birthers to his rising ratings?</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-529526</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-529526</guid>
		<description>Checking on ratings trend, I noticed that CNN&#039;s overall news ratings have dropped over the last few months in a predictable post-election slump. But so have MSNBC&#039;s and Fox&#039;s. Moreover, both CNN and MSNBC have dropped farther than Fox. (Per Nielsen, see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/viewertrack/trends/News_Programming_Analysis.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;last graph&lt;/a&gt; for trend.) 

So, what worth &lt;i&gt;if any&lt;/i&gt; is there in noting a short-term ratings drop for one show and trying to assign a specific causation to it when the overall trend for ALL shows and networks is downward? Shouldn&#039;t it be compared to the competition in the same time slot, and to the oerall network trends? Or is ideological cherry-picking the entire order of the day?

For example, Justin doesn&#039;t seem to have noticed that  &lt;a href=&quot;http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/07/28/the-ratings-trend-is-not-countdown-with-keith-olbermanns-friend/23783&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Olbermann&#039;s ratings trend&lt;/a&gt; are not exactly on an upward march, while blustering Bill O&#039;Reilly&#039;s have actually gone up a bit over the same period.

Context counts, doesn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Checking on ratings trend, I noticed that CNN&#8217;s overall news ratings have dropped over the last few months in a predictable post-election slump. But so have MSNBC&#8217;s and Fox&#8217;s. Moreover, both CNN and MSNBC have dropped farther than Fox. (Per Nielsen, see <a href="http://www.tvb.org/rcentral/viewertrack/trends/News_Programming_Analysis.asp" >last graph</a> for trend.) </p>
<p>So, what worth <i>if any</i> is there in noting a short-term ratings drop for one show and trying to assign a specific causation to it when the overall trend for ALL shows and networks is downward? Shouldn&#8217;t it be compared to the competition in the same time slot, and to the oerall network trends? Or is ideological cherry-picking the entire order of the day?</p>
<p>For example, Justin doesn&#8217;t seem to have noticed that  <a href="http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/07/28/the-ratings-trend-is-not-countdown-with-keith-olbermanns-friend/23783" >Olbermann&#8217;s ratings trend</a> are not exactly on an upward march, while blustering Bill O&#8217;Reilly&#8217;s have actually gone up a bit over the same period.</p>
<p>Context counts, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-529522</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-529522</guid>
		<description>Have Lou&#039;s chickens come home to roost ? These birthers are barking up a dead tree !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have Lou&#8217;s chickens come home to roost ? These birthers are barking up a dead tree !</p>
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		<title>By: James Thomas</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-529466</link>
		<dc:creator>James Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-529466</guid>
		<description>Lou has said on a few occasions he dont believe the conspiracy crap,but he is covering the story because alot of people do believe this because Mr Obama wont release his birth certificate.So if anyones at fault here its Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lou has said on a few occasions he dont believe the conspiracy crap,but he is covering the story because alot of people do believe this because Mr Obama wont release his birth certificate.So if anyones at fault here its Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: kranky kritter</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-528849</link>
		<dc:creator>kranky kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 00:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-528849</guid>
		<description>My measure of Dobbs was already that he is a complete idiot, a halfwit populist with no real moral or intellectual center.

While it is indeed curious that Dobbs seems to have wandered off his target demographic&#039;s reservation on this issue, it&#039;s sure not possible for his credibility to drop in my eyes. The guy has no insight to offer me. None. Period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My measure of Dobbs was already that he is a complete idiot, a halfwit populist with no real moral or intellectual center.</p>
<p>While it is indeed curious that Dobbs seems to have wandered off his target demographic&#8217;s reservation on this issue, it&#8217;s sure not possible for his credibility to drop in my eyes. The guy has no insight to offer me. None. Period.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-528834</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-528834</guid>
		<description>I used to watch him all the time, but during the election, it became quite obvious that he didn&#039;t care for Obama. This is just more Obama hate from him. So much for CNN being 24 hour news. They are drifting closer to Fox all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to watch him all the time, but during the election, it became quite obvious that he didn&#8217;t care for Obama. This is just more Obama hate from him. So much for CNN being 24 hour news. They are drifting closer to Fox all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Below The Beltway &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Lou Dobbs Goes Birther, Sends His Ratings Even Lower</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-528757</link>
		<dc:creator>Below The Beltway &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Lou Dobbs Goes Birther, Sends His Ratings Even Lower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-528757</guid>
		<description>[...] H/T: Donklephant [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] H/T: Donklephant [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-528753</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-528753</guid>
		<description>His ratings fall far enough, he&#039;s gone. Simple enough. But given the time slot and such, they&#039;re going to have to fall farther than that. Even with the drop, he&#039;s still beating hardballin&#039; leg-tinglin&#039; Chris Matthews in that time slot.

Credibility has nothing to with it. It&#039;s all about the ratings. But cheer up, he&#039;s still pro-gay-marriage and pro-choice....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>His ratings fall far enough, he&#8217;s gone. Simple enough. But given the time slot and such, they&#8217;re going to have to fall farther than that. Even with the drop, he&#8217;s still beating hardballin&#8217; leg-tinglin&#8217; Chris Matthews in that time slot.</p>
<p>Credibility has nothing to with it. It&#8217;s all about the ratings. But cheer up, he&#8217;s still pro-gay-marriage and pro-choice&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Mataconis</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-528730</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Mataconis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-528730</guid>
		<description>Justin,

Remember this is the guy who was telling us two years ago about the Mexican lepers coming to kill us all.

He has no credibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Justin,</p>
<p>Remember this is the guy who was telling us two years ago about the Mexican lepers coming to kill us all.</p>
<p>He has no credibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-528729</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-528729</guid>
		<description>I feel his credibility is tainted, but not shattered.  Nobody intelligent wants to watch conspiracy theories during a news broadcast.  That&#039;s like if he questioned if we really went to the moon during the 40 year anniversary show.  I think someone already used that analogy, but it&#039;s apt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel his credibility is tainted, but not shattered.  Nobody intelligent wants to watch conspiracy theories during a news broadcast.  That&#8217;s like if he questioned if we really went to the moon during the 40 year anniversary show.  I think someone already used that analogy, but it&#8217;s apt.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/31/lou-dobbs-ratings-drop-like-theyre-hot/comment-page-1/#comment-528685</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:24:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15950#comment-528685</guid>
		<description>Trying to figure out who he had credibility with....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trying to figure out who he had credibility with&#8230;.</p>
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