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	<title>Comments on: Barbarians at the Gates: What does scholar&#8217;s arrest really say about race in America?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2009/07/23/barbarians-at-the-gates/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/23/barbarians-at-the-gates/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Trescml</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/23/barbarians-at-the-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-522897</link>
		<dc:creator>Trescml</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15794#comment-522897</guid>
		<description>Classic case of two wrongs making a really big wrong.  Gates mouthed off to the police and the police seemed to want to show they were in charge.  Either side could have defused the situation, but neither did.  Unfortunately instead of making this a teaching moment about anger management, it has turned into an exercise of blame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Classic case of two wrongs making a really big wrong.  Gates mouthed off to the police and the police seemed to want to show they were in charge.  Either side could have defused the situation, but neither did.  Unfortunately instead of making this a teaching moment about anger management, it has turned into an exercise of blame.</p>
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		<title>By: michael reynolds</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/23/barbarians-at-the-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-522560</link>
		<dc:creator>michael reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 02:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15794#comment-522560</guid>
		<description>1) Actually it is not against the law to refuse to show ID.  It is if you&#039;re driving, but not if you&#039;re walking around minding your own business.  And definitely not when you&#039;re in your own home.  Cops can request you show them ID, but you are not required to comply. This ain&#039;t North Korea.

2) Any cop dumb enough to think a late middle-aged man, walking with a cane, at noon, is burglarizing a home, is too dumb to be on the force.  One of the great things about an experienced cop is that he develops a sixth sense:  there&#039;s no way in hell this looked like a crime to that cop.

3) Cops need probable cause that a crime&#039;s been committed.  Mouthing off to a cop is not a crime.  

This was about a cop insisting on showing dominance, controlling, not tolerating disrespect.

Obama was right: the police acted stupidly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) Actually it is not against the law to refuse to show ID.  It is if you&#8217;re driving, but not if you&#8217;re walking around minding your own business.  And definitely not when you&#8217;re in your own home.  Cops can request you show them ID, but you are not required to comply. This ain&#8217;t North Korea.</p>
<p>2) Any cop dumb enough to think a late middle-aged man, walking with a cane, at noon, is burglarizing a home, is too dumb to be on the force.  One of the great things about an experienced cop is that he develops a sixth sense:  there&#8217;s no way in hell this looked like a crime to that cop.</p>
<p>3) Cops need probable cause that a crime&#8217;s been committed.  Mouthing off to a cop is not a crime.  </p>
<p>This was about a cop insisting on showing dominance, controlling, not tolerating disrespect.</p>
<p>Obama was right: the police acted stupidly.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Benjamin</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/23/barbarians-at-the-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-522461</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Benjamin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15794#comment-522461</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Listen, where I live young white males face this kind of police action all the time. Back in the day, I was pulled over regularly by the police for some bogus reason or another. So why the ruckus when it happens to an older black guy? The rush to judgement based on a minuscule understanding of the entire story is very telling of peoplesâ€™ racial biases, though.&lt;/i&gt;

Because when it happens to an older man it always happens to a black guy.

And guys, even if the police story is true it&#039;s still an outrage. Saying stupid shit (such as accusing an officer of being racist) is not illegal. Yelling is not illegal. Refusing to show id to a cop is illegal, but eventually he did show the dang id. Come on now give the guy a break.

This reminds me of the incident where an idiot libertarian activist decided to get smart with the airport cops, and demanded to know what law required him to answer their questions. This is truly a smartass question to ask a policeman, because under the Constitution you don&#039;t have to tell the cops anything, ever. As a result he was inconvenienced for half-an-hour while the TSA tried to figure out whether the money he was carrying was drug money.

There was outrage that the evil TSA asked this guy questions for half-an-hour. These cops cuffed Gates, took him to the station, and gave footage of the arrest to national TV networks.

So objectively anybody who was even a little miffed at the treatment of Steve Bierfeldt should be up in arms about the treatment of Gates. That Gates claims he was oppressed because of his race, and Bienfeldt claims it was his political views is irrelevant. Wrongful treatment by the cops is wrongful treatment by the cops.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Listen, where I live young white males face this kind of police action all the time. Back in the day, I was pulled over regularly by the police for some bogus reason or another. So why the ruckus when it happens to an older black guy? The rush to judgement based on a minuscule understanding of the entire story is very telling of peoplesâ€™ racial biases, though.</i></p>
<p>Because when it happens to an older man it always happens to a black guy.</p>
<p>And guys, even if the police story is true it&#8217;s still an outrage. Saying stupid shit (such as accusing an officer of being racist) is not illegal. Yelling is not illegal. Refusing to show id to a cop is illegal, but eventually he did show the dang id. Come on now give the guy a break.</p>
<p>This reminds me of the incident where an idiot libertarian activist decided to get smart with the airport cops, and demanded to know what law required him to answer their questions. This is truly a smartass question to ask a policeman, because under the Constitution you don&#8217;t have to tell the cops anything, ever. As a result he was inconvenienced for half-an-hour while the TSA tried to figure out whether the money he was carrying was drug money.</p>
<p>There was outrage that the evil TSA asked this guy questions for half-an-hour. These cops cuffed Gates, took him to the station, and gave footage of the arrest to national TV networks.</p>
<p>So objectively anybody who was even a little miffed at the treatment of Steve Bierfeldt should be up in arms about the treatment of Gates. That Gates claims he was oppressed because of his race, and Bienfeldt claims it was his political views is irrelevant. Wrongful treatment by the cops is wrongful treatment by the cops.</p>
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		<title>By: kranky kritter</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/23/barbarians-at-the-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-522409</link>
		<dc:creator>kranky kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15794#comment-522409</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The story is fraught with political and policy significance on so many levels that itâ€™s no surprise that it spread so quickly.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually, the story isn&#039;t fraught with much other than a misunderstanding, a couple reactions (Gates and the cops) and the usual subsequent two versions of the story. The ensuing controversy says way more about the eagerness of various opportunists (journalists, spinmeisters, political activists) to pump up the windbag.

First, I&#039;d like to fill you unfamiliar folks in on what the City of Cambridge, Ma is like. Many folks in rest of our state unfondly refers to it as &quot;the people&#039;s republic of Cambridge&quot; because it&#039;s progressive-umbrage-taking central. You can bet every officer on the Cambridge force has taken the full boat of required sensitivity training etc etc.

So every officer knows what kind of potential headaches are involved in confrontations like this, even if celebrity isn&#039;t involved to pump the balloon bigger and tighter. If you understand this context, then you understand how unlikely it is that a cambridge cop is going to antagonize a known and demonstrated black homeowner just for sh!ts and giggles. Unless he &lt;i&gt;enjoys&lt;/i&gt; political crucifixion.

That&#039;s why I (and let me stress that this is simply my mileage) have a hard time believing that Gates was cooperative in identifying himself forthrightly as the owner and resident of the property, and demonstrating it. If he did that, a cop is going to go right to &quot;have a nice night sir.&quot; Or try to help. Or to explain that a neighbor reported a break-in and they wanted to be sure nothing bad was going on.

Reading between the lines, my speculation as to what happened is that when the cops showed up Gates was already in pretty ill temper over the hassle getting into his house, and dealing with the door. And when the cops showed up, he went into his &quot;racist cops hassle the black man&quot; subroutine. If he was abusive and belligerent at that point, then we know why things escalated, right?

I would not go so far as to suggest that the Cambridge police were utterly blameless in all this. Only the folks who were present know about that. But I do think that the responding officer was just trying to do his job, and he ran into a political sh!tstorm. He has my sympathy. Gates is IMO a known and demonstrated ideologue and a political opportunist, and I think he&#039;s trying to spin himself as a blameless victim instead of someone having  a really bad day who lost it and was  a full participant in however things escalated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The story is fraught with political and policy significance on so many levels that itâ€™s no surprise that it spread so quickly.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, the story isn&#8217;t fraught with much other than a misunderstanding, a couple reactions (Gates and the cops) and the usual subsequent two versions of the story. The ensuing controversy says way more about the eagerness of various opportunists (journalists, spinmeisters, political activists) to pump up the windbag.</p>
<p>First, I&#8217;d like to fill you unfamiliar folks in on what the City of Cambridge, Ma is like. Many folks in rest of our state unfondly refers to it as &#8220;the people&#8217;s republic of Cambridge&#8221; because it&#8217;s progressive-umbrage-taking central. You can bet every officer on the Cambridge force has taken the full boat of required sensitivity training etc etc.</p>
<p>So every officer knows what kind of potential headaches are involved in confrontations like this, even if celebrity isn&#8217;t involved to pump the balloon bigger and tighter. If you understand this context, then you understand how unlikely it is that a cambridge cop is going to antagonize a known and demonstrated black homeowner just for sh!ts and giggles. Unless he <i>enjoys</i> political crucifixion.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I (and let me stress that this is simply my mileage) have a hard time believing that Gates was cooperative in identifying himself forthrightly as the owner and resident of the property, and demonstrating it. If he did that, a cop is going to go right to &#8220;have a nice night sir.&#8221; Or try to help. Or to explain that a neighbor reported a break-in and they wanted to be sure nothing bad was going on.</p>
<p>Reading between the lines, my speculation as to what happened is that when the cops showed up Gates was already in pretty ill temper over the hassle getting into his house, and dealing with the door. And when the cops showed up, he went into his &#8220;racist cops hassle the black man&#8221; subroutine. If he was abusive and belligerent at that point, then we know why things escalated, right?</p>
<p>I would not go so far as to suggest that the Cambridge police were utterly blameless in all this. Only the folks who were present know about that. But I do think that the responding officer was just trying to do his job, and he ran into a political sh!tstorm. He has my sympathy. Gates is IMO a known and demonstrated ideologue and a political opportunist, and I think he&#8217;s trying to spin himself as a blameless victim instead of someone having  a really bad day who lost it and was  a full participant in however things escalated.</p>
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		<title>By: ExiledIndependent</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/23/barbarians-at-the-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-522209</link>
		<dc:creator>ExiledIndependent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15794#comment-522209</guid>
		<description>Listen, where I live young white males face this kind of police action all the time.  Back in the day, I was pulled over regularly by the police for some bogus reason or another.  So why the ruckus when it happens to an older black guy?  The rush to judgement based on a minuscule understanding of the entire story is very telling of peoples&#039; racial biases, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Listen, where I live young white males face this kind of police action all the time.  Back in the day, I was pulled over regularly by the police for some bogus reason or another.  So why the ruckus when it happens to an older black guy?  The rush to judgement based on a minuscule understanding of the entire story is very telling of peoples&#8217; racial biases, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/23/barbarians-at-the-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-522198</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15794#comment-522198</guid>
		<description>&quot;First, itâ€™s pretty clear that the police acted inappropriately â€” at least if Gatesâ€™ version of the story is to be believed in its entirety.

I would suggest that assuming one can believe Gatesâ€™ version to be 100% accurate and truthful is a large leap of faith.&quot;

And it&#039;s just as large of a leap of faith to believe the police report 100%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;First, itâ€™s pretty clear that the police acted inappropriately â€” at least if Gatesâ€™ version of the story is to be believed in its entirety.</p>
<p>I would suggest that assuming one can believe Gatesâ€™ version to be 100% accurate and truthful is a large leap of faith.&#8221;</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s just as large of a leap of faith to believe the police report 100%.</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/07/23/barbarians-at-the-gates/comment-page-1/#comment-522181</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15794#comment-522181</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;First, itâ€™s pretty clear that the police acted inappropriately â€” at least if Gatesâ€™ version of the story is to be believed in its entirety.&lt;/i&gt;

I would suggest that assuming one can believe Gates&#039; version to be 100% accurate and truthful is a large leap of faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>First, itâ€™s pretty clear that the police acted inappropriately â€” at least if Gatesâ€™ version of the story is to be believed in its entirety.</i></p>
<p>I would suggest that assuming one can believe Gates&#8217; version to be 100% accurate and truthful is a large leap of faith.</p>
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