Murtha Judgements
By Denise Best | Related entries in In The NewsCould someone please explain how a top ranking member on a subcommitte that oversees defense matters can publicly, and unequivocally, denounce joining the military?
Rep. John Murtha, a key Democratic voice who favors pulling U.S. troops from Iraq, said in remarks airing on Monday that he would not join the U.S. military today.
A decorated Vietnam combat veteran who retired as a colonel after 37 years in the U.S. Marine Corps, Murtha told ABC News’ “Nightline” program that Iraq “absolutely” was a wrong war for President George W. Bush to have launched.
“Would you join (the military) today?,” he was asked in an interview taped on Friday.“No,” replied Murtha of Pennsylvania, the top Democrat on the House of Representatives subcommittee that oversees defense spending and one of his party’s leading spokesmen on military issues.
“And I think you’re saying the average guy out there who’s considering recruitment is justified in saying ‘I don’t want to serve’,” the interviewer continued.
“Exactly right,” said Murtha, who drew White House ire in November after becoming the first ranking Democrat to push for a pullout of U.S. forces from Iraq as soon as it could be done safely.
No doubt, Murtha’s experiences in Vietnam are playing a factor in these denouncements, as evidenced by these types of comments.
“Let me tell you, war is a nasty business. It sears the soul,” he said, choking up. “And it made a difference. The shadow of those killings stay with you the rest of your life.”
Yes, war should not romanticized nor its ramifications lightly considered. There is definitely a necessity for the existence and support of our military though.
Murtha’s comments of late do not offer a vision or direction for what activities the military should be involved in moving forward. We need to have more insight into what Murtha’s idea of a military worthy to be joined would look like.
Given the position that Murtha holds, how is this a responsible statement?
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January 3rd, 2006 at 9:46 am
Given the position that Murtha holds, how is this a responsible statement?
He answered a question with his honest opinion. Why is that a bad thing?
Should he have lied or should he have refused to answer the question?
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:59 am
Yeah, this is hardly a damning admission…he was asked a simple question and he answered honestly with very few words. Also, there isn’t any blustery rhetoric here. How is it not responsible to answer a question honestly?
And furthermore, why ask that question? Are you angry with Murtha?
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:10 am
I see nothing in his statement that isn’t how he honestly feels.
Whats wrong with that?
BTW - how old are you Denise? It might still be possible for you to join.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:18 am
rob…While I don’t agree with Denise’s position on this, one can still criticize critics of the war and not enlist. The whole “chickenhawk” meme is a fallacy and you know it.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:13 am
I’m concerned that the commentary Murtha has offered to date does not extend beyond denouncing the War in Iraq.
Certainly an honest (and personal) opinion can be given, but given his leadership position there should be an expectation of more explanation given as to his vision of what the military should be doing.
It’s well and good to offer opinions, but shouldn’t we expect our leaders, such as Murtha, to be aware of the impact of their commentary and accordingly have something more to communicate besides disagreement with policy?
How is it when a top government leader says he wouldn’t join the military, this isn’t seen as being a point of concern as to our country’s future?
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:40 am
I’m concerned that the commentary Murtha has offered to date does not extend beyond denouncing the War in Iraq.
Murtha offered a resolution which outlined an alternative policy regarding the War in Iraq. I think that extends beyond denouncing the war. Do you equate that as nothing more than a denunciation of the War in Iraq?
shouldn’t we expect our leaders, such as Murtha, to be aware of the impact of their commentary
What is the impact of his commentary?
How is it when a top government leader says he wouldn’t join the military, this isn’t seen as being a point of concern as to our country’s future?
I don’t know. How is it?
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:57 am
From what I’ve read, I don’t think Murtha suggested that he doesn’t support the military or its existence. Sure, he’s against the present war, but so are many folks in this country…some polls even show a majority.
Again, I think you’re reaching with some of these comments. Just my two cents.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:00 pm
From what I’ve read, I don’t think Murtha suggested that he doesn’t support the military or its existence. Sure, he’s against the present war, but so are many folks in this country…some polls even show a majority.
Again, I think you’re reaching…
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:04 pm
Blue Neponset,
The function and purpose of our military goes beyond the War in iraq; it exists beyond a particular administration.
Murtha’s comments would appear to be throwing the baby with the bath water by saying because of policy regarding Iraq, the military is flawed to the point of it not offering a viable opportunity to serve one’s country — at least from Mr. Murtha’s point of view.
The point of concern regarding our country’s future is a fundmental one …
What is a primary function of the military?
Since conducting war is definitely one of the functions and Murtha is, by his comments, against war period, doesn’t it seem given Murtha’s role on the defense subcommittee, that there would be a concern for the future of our military?
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:10 pm
Justin,
I don’t want to blow Murtha’s comments out of proportion, but …
How exactly do his comments to date support the military?
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:17 pm
Justin,
No, I’m not angry with Murtha and I’m not trying to reach, it’s just a concern that I wanted to express about Murtha’s objectivity regarding the military.
Given what he experienced in Vietnam and how it appears to have deeply impacted him, aren’t you at all concerned that this degree of emotionalism could be clouding his judgment in this area?
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:18 pm
Denise,
Murtha is against this war, and since a new recruit would almost certainly serve in this war, he feels that that is a sufficient reason to not join “today.”
His comments leave open the possibility that people who support the war (and even those who don’t) are justified in joining if that is what they personally want to do.
This is far from your suggestion that he is claiming that the military is flawed to the point of not offering a viable opportunity to serve the country.
I don’t think that Murtha is against all wars or the military in general. You seem to be the only one suggesting this.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:25 pm
Jeff,
I appreciate the perspective you offered in your reply.
A question though …
Would Murtha’s comments to date encourage you to join the military?
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Denise,
No. But, I don’t feel that it’s a Congressman’s job to be a recruiter for the military. Do you?
If Murtha was actually telling people to not the join the military then his comments would be suspect. This isn’t what he’s saying, though.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Denise,
I don’t think Jack Murtha’s statement will be affecting our military so drastically. I believe you are over-estimating his power as ranking minority member of the defense subcommittee.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Given what he experienced in Vietnam and how it appears to have deeply impacted him, aren’t you at all concerned that this degree of emotionalism could be clouding his judgment in this area?
I’d be lots more worried about the judgement of someone who’d been in combat and didn’t appear to have been affected by it.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:41 pm
Blue Neponset,
I know a lot of what we conclude relates to our interpretations and I respect your opinion - that’s what good discussion is all about : )
I see your point, although Murtha’s statement was powerful enough to make the news, and with the way the headline reads, cast doubt upon the military.
The media can definitely heighten the power of these types of statements.
January 3rd, 2006 at 12:52 pm
Philip J. Birmingham,
Yes, having a sociopath type mentality would offer a different set of concerns.
Do you agree though that in the type of leadership role that Murtha holds there should be an objectivity exhibited which allows for responsible comments, decisions, and actions?
January 3rd, 2006 at 1:07 pm
Jeff,
I feel that it’s a Congressman’s job to encourage serving our country and the military does offer such an avenue.
I would expect that more discretion would be used before making blanket statements such as “I wouldn’t join the military today.”
Murtha could have countered back to the interviewer on the question, but instead chose to answer a simple “no” he wouldn’t join the military today.
Again, given his position, this response is certainly deemed newsworthy for a reason.
So, either Murtha is using the media or being used - personally I think it’s the latter and that’s a sad situation when a man that is so greatly affected by a war experience might be used in such a manner.
January 3rd, 2006 at 2:13 pm
Do you agree though that in the type of leadership role that Murtha holds there should be an objectivity exhibited which allows for responsible comments, decisions, and actions?
Of course.
However, unless I see Murtha’s statements in context (anyone have the Nightline transcript?) I can’t say how responsible they were.
Saying “I don’t think anyone should ever join the military” would be totally irresponsible.
Saying “Maybe you should wait for the Iraq fiasco to blow over, and see how the rumors of attacks on Iran pan out, before you enlist,” not so much. That’s certainly the advice I’d give to anyone who asked me.
If you believe, as I do and as Murtha apparently does, that the President has squandered a large number of American lives to no good end, would it be responsible to say anything else?
It’s not really clear from the Reuters story which he said, but my inclination is toward the latter. You don’t see too many 37-year veterans with a pacifistic streak as wide as would be required to say the former.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:02 pm
I wouldn’t call Murtha’s statement irresponsible. He has no responsibility to support the war, and his statements haven’t been over the top. His statements that we should leave Iraq now don’t upset me nearly as much as his statements (back in November) that our troops have “suffered enough” or this impression (now) that the military is less worthy of service today than it was back during Vietnam. I’m sure he doesn’t want or need my pity, but that’s what I felt in November and still feel. It’s tough to see such a distinguished veteran so out of touch with the spirit of the military he served so well.
The US military today, especially the Army and Marine Corps, is in vastly superior shape to where it was in Vietnam or at any time since. When I was in (post-Vietnam era), there was a pervasive lack of professionalism. Nobody really knew what they were doing, and a significant percentage didn’t care. Drop us into a combat zone and we would have been in a world of hurt. The only saving grace was that the Soviet hordes which we were ostensibly training to fight were even less prepared than we were. That isn’t the case today. Our military knows how to fight, and is a world ahead of where it was when I was in, both in skill and spirit. If you’re serious about serving in the military, now is a great time to be in. Certainly better than when I was in! The fact that a distinguished career military man has become so sick in spirit that he can’t see this, is incredibly sad.
January 3rd, 2006 at 5:10 pm
Denise,
You’re an opportunist, and not that you don’t have the right to be so, but common implying that Murtha is a peace loving, tree hugging hippy is out of line. The truth is that since Murtha came out against the war people - everyday people - are starting to agree that the War is not worth it. Look into Murtha’s past votes and actions regarding the millitary and say that this man is against the millitary. This is just another assault on an opponent for you. Ask Cheney if he’d join the millitary and he’d say he has better things to do. Don’t attack this man because you disagree with his stance on this War. And he has offered a number of options on how to get out of this mess, and although you will say it is Cut and Run, that just is not true. Really read his plan for getting out of Iraq.
January 3rd, 2006 at 9:17 pm
John,
I don’t regard Murtha as a peace loving, tree hugging hippie, rather I view him as being exceptionally haunted by his experiences in Vietnam as well as being used unfairly by the media as a type of lightning rod for anti-war rhetoric.
Murtha recent comments don’t support the record he has built over the years, as well as his commendable service in the military — that’s what is so perplexing and disconcerting.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:44 pm
What are you talking about. I’m not talking about criticizing the war.
I’m saying that he said if he was of age he wouldn’t enlist. If you are going to criticize that statement you must obviously think that he should enlist. If she thinks he should enlist, she must also think it good idea for her.
To be honest I just can’t fathom the simple-mindedness of criticizing someone saying that they would not join up.
January 3rd, 2006 at 10:51 pm
Where are you drawing this inference?
Until very recently he has been VERY strongly pro military.
I think (I don’t know, and I bet you don’t either) that he is fed up with the incompetence demonstrated by this administration is prosecuting this war. And he has been critical of the treatment of the returning veterans. I think this sounds more likely than your psycho-bable
January 4th, 2006 at 3:20 am
“I view him as being exceptionally haunted by his experiences in Vietnam as well as being used unfairly by the media as a type of lightning rod for anti-war rhetoric.”
So what does “exceptionally haunted” mean? Are you saying he’s crazy? Suffering from PTSD? Crazy like McCain because of his war experience? Have you been talking to Rove?
On another note, objectivity alone guarentees your decsion will not be a fully informed one. Personal experience doesn’t guarentee wisdom but at the same time very few wise decisions are ever made without it. Objectivity is no panacea and subjectivity holds up half the sky.
Rick
Rick
January 4th, 2006 at 9:23 am
Denise,
Unfortunately, what you find so “perplexing and disconcerting” is that someone could question the wisdom of this War. Murtha was in support of it, but if you listen to all of his statements and suggestions, Rob is right, he is not so much turned off by War, but turned off by this administrations execution of this War, another fact that I’m sure you find “perplexing and disconcerting”.