Supreme Court To Review Obama’s Citizenship
By Glenn Church | Related entries in Barack
It looks like the Barack Obama citizenship issue will not die until he is inaugurated. It probably will not end even then.
Now the U.S. Supreme Court will discuss the matter in private because one justice decided it was worthy. Before fingering the member of our highest court, I will give a little background information on the case. If you do not think too hard about it, you can probably guess which Supreme Court Justice is responsible.
Leo Donofrio of New Jersey filed suit against Nina Wells, the New Jersey Secretary of State, claiming that she had not performed her duty to ensure the integrity of the electoral process.
Donofrio originally asked a state court to review the citizenship of Barack Obama, John McCain and Roger Calero. Calero was the Socialist Worker’s Party Presidential candidate. He was born in Venezuela. That is a cut and dry case.
John McCain was born in Panama but on an American military base. Legal scholars believe birth on an American military base qualifies as a “natural-born citizen.” A “natural-born citizen” is one of the requirements to be President.
For Obama, it is the old born in Kenya story again. Anyone who doubts that Obama was not born in Hawaii, please refer to Politifact and Factcheck investigations. Hawaii does not allow birth records to be publicly viewed. This is why no one can go in and see the certificate. It is not because Obama is hiding them, or they were never there. Read this article from Foolocracy if you want more information.
Anyway, after Donofrio’s case was rejected at the state level, he presented it to Supreme Court Justice David Souter who rejected it. Donofrio then presented it to Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas who put it on the court docket for a conference on December 5. If four of the nine justices decide to hear the case, then full oral arguments will be scheduled.
Now it is possible Thomas wants to review Calero’s eligibility as a Presidential candidate. There are plenty of acceptable reasons for this. However, the timing, 10 days before the Electoral College meets, only gives hope and ammunition for those who believe Barack Obama has conspired to create the greatest hoax in world history — that he and his family have been hiding his Kenyan citizenship since he was a few days old so he could run for President.
Gee, thanks, Clarence Thomas.
By the way, for those still questioning Obama’s and McCain’s citizenship qualifications, al-Qaeda did fly planes into the Twin Towers, aliens have not abducted millions of people for medical experiments, and the moon is not made of cheese.
Here is the Supreme Court docket. You can see the real thing here.
(from Foolocracy.com)
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November 23rd, 2008 at 4:20 pm
This entire issue is in serious need of clarification.
The Supreme Court will NOT be meeting to discuss Barack Obama’s citizenship, they will meet to determine if they will even accept the case for review. I’m hazarding a guess here, but I’m 99.99% certain that the answer to that question will be no. The Justices will not be meeting to “review Obama’s citizenship status.” They likely won’t even discuss the facts of the case, since Supreme Court review is limited to questions of law, not questions of fact
November 23rd, 2008 at 6:47 pm
From what I know Philip’s Berg’s case is already in the Supreme Court. The Court will eventually decide what to do with it. Addition, I believe 3rd suit from the state of CT is scheduled to submitted to the Supreme Court alleging the same similiar argument. The Justices of Supreme Court have received dozens if not hundreds of letters from American Citizens that they demand they honor and uphold the US Consititution.
Andy Martin plans to appeal his case and eventually might find its way to the Supreme Court.
Alen Keyes has also filed suit against Obama and the CA Electorals that they verify Obama to a “Natural Born” citizen and that his actual Birth Certificate in Hawaii be released for scrunity.
Finally there are suits in Texas, North Carolina and perhaps Mississippi that have or will filing suits alleging Obama is not qualified.
It will certainly be interesting how this plays out in the next few weeks.
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:02 pm
The State of Hawaii has merely said that they have a Birth Certificate on File; not that he was actually born in Hawaii. The Birth Certificate on file may indicate a Kenyan birth. Hawaii laws people to obtain Certifications of Live Birth even if you weren’t born in Hawaii.
There is evidence that Obama was born in Kenya:
Obama’s Grandmother in Kenya revealed that she was in the delivery room when Obama was born IN KENYA.
Further, recent radio show with so-called Kenyan Ambassdor has confirmed Obama as being born in Kenya:
http://my.wrif.com/mim/?p=916
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:09 pm
This story would get any traction at all and Obama will be sworn in as President on Jan. 20, 2009.
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Mr. James Youngblood
PLEASE GET OFF THE CRACK OBAMA WILL BE YOUR NEXT PRESIDENT ON JAN. 20, 2009.
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:15 pm
This whole dark episode in American history will become a bigger problem as time goes on. I imagine in 5, 10 or 20yrs time when we look back the Obamabots will wonder what happened and why they were all brainwashed to over look this obvious faux pas.
Time has run out, the fight can’t be in the court room of the SCOTUS as they simply will not rule on this, as they too have been paid off to destroy the Constitution. Quite simply someone must get the copy of the certificate and blow it out of the water.
The future is bleak, I am just sitting back and measuring just how severely effected the public are, the combination of a diet of Coke, Big Macs, Britney Spears, Oprah, CNN and Political Correctness (which is a communist invention). This did not just happen overnight, it has been in planning for around 30yrs.
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Please view the clips. Quite Compelling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIsQJNTvlUE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAZAbqgpoGQ
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Mr. Youngblood
That’s not even compelling.
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Glenn,
You’re just another liberal that isn’t willing to look at the true facts but wants to obfuscate through misdirection.
The truth about Donofrio’s case before the SCOTUS is this: the founding fathers didn’t want people with split loyalties at birth to be able to ultimately assume the position of the POTUS without being ‘natural born’. Even if BO was born in Hawaii as he states (although doubtful) he would not be ‘natural born’ because both parents were not citizens of the USA, and therefore at birth received multiple citizenships. According to our founding fathers multiple loyalties do NOT mean natural born.
The intended criteria of ‘natural born’ is born on US soil to parents that are both US citizens. Neither McCain or BO meet this criteria.
If BO doesn’t have anything to hide then why doesn’t he just cough up a vault copy of his original long form birth? It likely it because he has something to hide and doesn’t want to be immediatly thrown out on his you know what.
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:55 pm
It is interesting that since at least last February McCain was sued and hounded on this very same issue. There were full spread articles in such newspapers as the New York Times. At the time the same questions were being asked of Obama. Any news coverage and articles in mainline papers about Obama being a “natural born citizen”? Nope. Eventually McCain as an honorable man, knowing that this important question needed to be answered before the election to prevent voter fraud, produced his birth records to the Senate and had them reviewed and this resulted:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-sr511/text
Note who was there for this vote. Yup Obama. Did he stand up and say, “I have been asked these same questions and to prevent a fraud on the voters before the election I demand that you look at all of my records and make a similar resolution”. Did that happen? Nope.
Instead Obama produces a Certification of Live Birth that the Obama campaign posted to various websites who dutifully state that they have held the document and have certified that it is authentic and that it proves that Obama is a “natural born citizen”. Unfortunately, according to the Hawaiian Department of Health and the laws of Hawaii what has been produced i.e. a Certification of Live Birth is not the same as a Certificate of Live Birth, which is the document that is required to authenticate Hawaiian birth.
In the Berg matter Obama could have signed a release and paid $12.00 and produced a copy of his vault or long form birth certificate. Instead Obama and the DNC send in three law firms to fight the case on the technical grounds that a citizen does not have standing to ask a candidate that question. Most of all of the other lawsuits have been dismissed on similar grounds. As of this date the only evidence produced is the same old Certification of Life birth from the various Websites.
Alan Keyes has filed a suit in California Sacramento Superior Court. You can go to the Court website and get a copy of the writ of mandate. I recommend that you go there and get a copy and read it. Keyes has sued Obama, Biden, Deborah Bowen the California Secretary of State and the 55 California Democratic electors. This law suit does not suffer from the same lack of standing arguments that the others have been dismissed under as Keyes was on the ballot in California and can show damages and hence has standing to ask the court to review the material that Ms. Bowen used to vet Obama to put him on the ballot. In this case Bowen is going to have to present the evidence that she used to vet or qualify Obama. If it cannot be determined that Obama is a “natural born citizen” Bowen will not be able to certify the 55 electors. Such a decision would quickly spread to other States.
If there is something embarrassing in Obama’s records then he should take the opportunity to bring his records to the Supreme Court and ask them to review them in private and issue a ruling if he meets the Constitutional standard of not. The records could then be sealed. If Obama continues to show up with a fleet of attorneys and fights to have his records sealed it can only mean he is hiding something.
November 23rd, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Why do I feel like James S and James Youngblood are the same person? That and all this conspiracy talk is just as made up? C’mon. Give this shit up. Punk ass fake shit. Given the clarence shit, I don’t think we’ve heard the last of this.
November 23rd, 2008 at 8:04 pm
THE U.S. CONSTITUTION NEEDS TO BE UP HELD AND ALL DOCUMENTS SHOULD BE RELEASED AS TO OBAMA’S LEGITIMACY TO THE HIGHEST SEAT OF THIS COUNTRY. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DEMAND TO KNOW THE TRUTH AND THOSE THAT HAVE SWORN TO DEFEND AND UP HOLD THE U.S. CONSTITUTION SHOULD DEMAND THESE DOCUMENTS FROM MR. OBAMA SO THEY CAN BE SCRUTINIZED AS TO THERE AUTHENTICITY.
November 23rd, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Factcheck and snopes aren’t credible internet sources. A certification of live birth isn’t a birth certificate. Note there’s no hospital name, Dr.’s name etc. Also, Donofrio regretfully submits that even if he were born in Hawaii, he was born to a woman who wasn’t a citizen for the necessary five years, and the sire wasn’t a citizen. Seems like he does have an argument. If you want to secure your own constitutional rights, then you’d better take the document seriously. If not, then you’ll get what you deserve - used like animals - if history is any guide.
November 23rd, 2008 at 8:41 pm
James S Says:
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:15 pm
“This whole dark episode in American history…”
“The future is bleak…”
=======
Gee… he doesn’t sound like a conspiracy-minded wingnut, does he?
Ever notice how wingnuts use language like “i fear for my country…”, etc.
This case, as well as the rest of them, is garbage.
November 23rd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Actually Leo Donofrio argues that Obama is not a Natural Born citizen even if he was born in Hawaii. If you read what he has submitted to the courts you will find he believes it makes no difference WHERE he was born. If you follow the logic of his argument it appears that a person cannot be born with dual citizenship and be “natural born” because the person would have loyalty to two countries at birth…this being “unnatural”. If you take the time to follow up on what he is saying and why, it appears he could very well be correct…or not. This is what the Supreme Court should/must decide.
November 23rd, 2008 at 10:23 pm
The Supreme Court CANNOT DUCK Obama’s Birth Certificate Constitutional Crisis (albeit the media blackout on the issue). The messiah will NOT become President! This 90-minute blogradio program explains why:
politicalpistachio.blogspot.com/2008/11/why-is-obamas-birth-certificate-still.html
November 23rd, 2008 at 10:46 pm
This is such a serious matter that even the international civil and political rights organization known as AXJ has decided to carry out their own investigation and have posted the documents on their website: http://www.axjus.com
November 23rd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Can anyone tell me the hospital he was born at? As anyone asked him? My birth certificate says the hospital. The one I saw from his website doesn’t mention a hospital. Anyone else out there have a certificate not mentioning the hospital. I don’t see why the hospital doesn’t have a big sign out front saying “Barak Obama Born Here”.
November 23rd, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Ted
The Supreme Court will not hear the Obama case. He will be your next President end of story!!
November 23rd, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Hmmm… This New Jersey case may be a whole new twist to the “natural citizenship” requirement. If Roger Calero is obviously not a natural born citizen, but yet was still allowed to be on the ballots, then SCOTUS could step in and rule that citizenship MUST BE VERIFIED in advance prior to a candidate’s placement on any ballot.
Of course their ruling would most likely be worded in a way that would require all requirements for any particular office be verified in advance prior to a candidate’s placement on the ballot so as to not cause disenfranchisement of the voters. This could end up covering every office from school boards to the Presidency.
Now what they would require as proof of “natural born” citizenship would be interesting, and what conditions must be met even more interesting. Would they require just the simple short form birth certificate issued by a state, or would they require the original long form certificate generated by the doctor or hospital? I know the senate passed a resolution stating that a child born on a U.S. military base outside the U.S. was “natural born” (Obama even supported this one) which covers McCain, but would SCOTUS concur or overturn it?
The Obama being born in Kenya story may or may not have any merit, but the relevance of the case as a whole may be legitimate enough that the Justices must hear the case, simply because Roger Calero was allowed on the ballot when it was obvious he should not have been.
This will be very interesting. Whether you supported Obama, McCain, Calero, Clinton, or any other candidate doesn’t really matter. This case might just be heard for reasons other than Obama’s alleged location of birth.
November 24th, 2008 at 12:13 am
The Dems let this kind of technicality slide right by 8 years ago. The Constitution requires President and VP come from different states. Bush is from Texas. Cheney took the homestead exemption (primary residence) on his place in Texas.
Looks like this is quite a conspiracy. These claims will be floated and threaten to put the electoral voting into a mess, and then the Republicans will offer to quickly amend the Constitution to take out the ‘natural’ part and make the matter moot. If the Democrats go along, Arnold is elected in 2012.
November 24th, 2008 at 12:19 am
The point that keeps getting missed in the whole was he born in Kenya or not debate is the fact that even if he was born in kenya, Obama is still a natural born citizen. His mother was most definitely a citizen and the requirement is one parent be a citizen and i have never heard any arguments that she gave up her citizenship.
November 24th, 2008 at 1:01 am
[...] Donofrio originally asked a state court to review the citizenship of Barack Obama, John McCain and R… [...]
November 24th, 2008 at 1:02 am
[...] Now the U.S. Supreme Court will discuss the matter in private because one justice decided it was wor… [...]
November 24th, 2008 at 1:32 am
Its an open secret that Clarence Thomas is by far the least intelligent person on the supreme court.
1. he says nothing during most arguments
2. he always just agrees w/ scalia
its just sort of sad, really.
November 24th, 2008 at 1:43 am
If the Supreme Court doesn’t pick up the Obama Non-Citizen ball and run with it, the liberal left-wing conspiracy nutcases and the now-in-hiding media together will beat this matter to death.
And, George Soros will finally get his wish- Come January 20, 2009 it will be President George Soros and his Obama Howdy Doody doll.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:54 am
Your blog entry is tainted by a lack of understanding. Souter didn’t reject the case in so much as the Stay Clerk didn’t properly file it, so that Souter likely never read the case, and rejected it by not acting on it.
The re-filing to Justice Thomas is allowed under Supreme Court rules (it’s called checks and balances kids, learn about them).
This case, unlike Phil Berg’s, does not seek to have Barack Obama provide his birth certificate. Instead it is seeking to clarify what the Founding Fathers intended when they wrote the term ‘natural born citizen’. This has never been taken up by the court.
It is true that if the court hears the case, then the result could be a review of Obama’s citizenship status. But as long as all his papers are in order, then he has nothing to fear.
The fact that Justice Thomas distributed the case for Conference is a rare enough occurrence. The case needs to have legal validity to get this far, so to characterize Thomas as somehow being predictable is displaying a complete lack of understanding of how a case arrives at the court and is dealt with after it arrives.
As for Obama and his citizenship status, he’s a lawyer and he has lots of lawyer friends. You can drink the kool aid, but if Obama believes he is entitled to run for President as a naturalized citizen (he has NEVER claimed to be a ‘natural born citizen’ - go check it out.) because of the 14th Amendment, then Obama has put us in this situation - not Justice Thomas or Leo Donofrio or anyone else that is seeking to clarify the LAW.
IF - and it’s still a big IF - it turns out that Obama is not qualified to serve as President - then anything he signs while in office (if this gets that far) will be invalid. TALK ABOUT CHAOS AND IRRESPONSIBILITY.
Wake up! This case seeks to answer the question of what constitutes ‘natural born citizen’ - if Obama meets that criteria, then we have NO PROBLEMS. If he doesn’t then things will get real interesting.
November 24th, 2008 at 5:51 am
Yeah. I can see clearly the logic of a man who isn’t a US citizen running for president knowing full well the truth would come out. Give me a break. No one would risk losing all over something as fundamental as citizenship. Get a grip right-wingers. You’re grasping at straws. Your party wrecked the nation big time and the people have spoken. Even if Obama wasn’t a citizen he sure as hell is a better leader than ANYONE from the GOP by miles. So take a deep breath…relax…and realize you’ve been voting against your own interests for the past 8 years. Give the guy a chance. He just might make your life easier and you might even become a little more human in the process.
November 24th, 2008 at 6:57 am
Please..this is STUPID. James Youngblood, and all the other Obama conspiracy nuts:
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
Barack Obama’s birth certificate. Online now for a long time.
This should settle the question once and for all, Obama was born in the US.
Now let this stupidity die,
November 24th, 2008 at 7:08 am
For those who think Obama wasn’t born in the US all I can say is that there is something seriously wrong with you. What was it the Reich Wingers said after the 2000 election………Oh yea, “just get over it”.
November 24th, 2008 at 7:29 am
[...] Read more: Donklephant » Blog Archive » Supreme Court To Review Obama’s … | [...]
November 24th, 2008 at 8:17 am
If I’m not mistaken (and I’m not), the citizenship of the President is a matter of law. Article II of the constitution (the law) states the requirements for qualifications for the office of President. Natural born citizen is a requirement. If Obama’s citizenship is in question, then it is a question of whether or not his Presidency is legal. The Supreme Court should hear the case.
November 24th, 2008 at 8:23 am
I was wondering where all the Ron Paul-nuts went….now I know
November 24th, 2008 at 8:26 am
No one has seen Obama’s original birth certificate plus matching hospital record. Hawaii’s Health Department holding a duplicate BC that was created with Kenyan original.
November 24th, 2008 at 8:36 am
All these right wing wack jobs are absolutely funny. Face it, the best man for the job won the election OBAMA. Now, do the patriotic thing and support YOUR president and start being more constructive with your time. The republican neocon theology has destroyed much of what we as a nation once had. The only way to get back on track is if we all pull together for the sake of our future. If you can’t do that, then get out of the way of people who can.
November 24th, 2008 at 8:43 am
I’d like to throw another cog or two into the wheel if I might. Hehe I’m more INTERESTED in stimulating the talk of the possible outcomes of ‘what if’ rather than simply saying one side is right or wrong. The mere fact that this matter has reached SCOTUS makes for a myriad of possibilities.
First of all, there have been none “natural born” candidates that ran for the POTUS position in the past. They just never won, so the matter was never taken up by the Court. Also IF (notice the big ‘if’) Obama was born outside the U.S. then he would not retain U.S. citizenship, since his mother had not reached the age of 19. “The U.S. citizen parent must have been physically present in the United States for a cumulative period (or periods totaling) ten years before the birth of the child, at least five years of which were after the U.S. citizen parent reached the age of fourteen. If this requirement is met, the child acquires U.S. citizenship under the provisions of Section 301(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act.”
“IF” Obama was born in Kenya as alleged, then what? Most states require their electoral voters to cast the vote that the state chose. McCain would fall short of the 270, Biden could not automatically step in to Obama’s place for the choice, since that would alienate every voter Democrats and Republicans alike. Clinton’s supporters would have to be outraged, and vast numbers of those who contributed to Obama’s campaign would be seeking restitution. There would be major turmoil in the land.
What if SCOTUS chooses to not act on this issue and it is later determined that Obama was born outside the U.S.? Oooh! Then you would have a MAJOR MAJOR Constitutional disaster. Every branch of the government, judicial, congressional, and executive would be under suspicion of collusion. There would be such an uprising to throw EVERY elected official out of office for having let this happen, that our recent market plunge would look like nothing in comparison. If, however, Obama did manage to pull off his promises and the U.S. was flourishing once again, then the People of the U.S. could rally to his support and call for a change in the Constitution and in the laws to abjugate him. If he flops, ouch!!!
Of course, both scenarios above are contingent upon Obama having been born outside of the U.S.. If he was born in Hawaii, as he claims and the Justices determine this then all will be fine. The sun will come out tomorrow, the birds will sing, and everyone will be happy. Either way, SCOTUS needs to investigate this whole matter and make a ruling in regards to how, when and where any candidate must validate his/her “natural born” citizenship. Calero slipping through and being placed on the ballot is the reason why they need to rule on this matter.
November 24th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Dear Mr. Church,
With all due respect, Sir, it is obvious in reading your article that you are not at all in favor of people questioning the eligibility of Mr. Obama to become POTUS. Your rhetoric is clear, and any halfway intelligent person can see that once again, this is BIASED reporting.
And now, for all the people who wrote silly little comments of one or two lines, such as, “This is garbage” and “He will be your next President”, - it would behoove you to invest a little time and perhaps actually research the facts which have been uncovered, so that you might not appear too stupid. It’s amazing how many of my democrat friends, when I ask them what they think about this issue, say to me, “Oh, what’s that? I haven’t heard anything about Obama’s citizenship or status being questioned…” But that doesn’t really surprise me due to the MSM’s reporting tactics, and the love relationship with Mr. Obama.
As I have said before, I am so tired of hearing UNINFORMED people make remarks like, “Well, his mother was a citizen, so there!” and the likes. One has to dig deep to solve this problem, and that is why we have judges. The fact that there are MANY lawsuits out there, and petitions, and that the SCOTUS is involved is indeed clear evidence that there is a MAJOR problem, which needs to be examined.
I am sick of the bias of the media, as this is an item that is extremely newsworthy. Hundreds of thousands of Americans are becoming more informed each day, and believe me, if it does indeed turn out that Mr. Obama was born in Kenya, then either justice will be served, and he will NOT become the 44th President of the United States, or there will be a serious Constitutional Crisis in our land, and our country will be MOCKED the entire world over. This is too big of a problem to be laughed at by the LEFT WING RADICALS who are not tolerant of legitimately questioning people.
This concerns the legal and judicial foundation of our very country. And if one is proud to be an American, one can be proud of the system put in place by our forefathers, who fought for their liberty to do so. Our Constitution is a brilliant piece of work which shall remain solid and should be defended. Should other countries be so fortunate….
November 24th, 2008 at 8:51 am
You should be thanking Justice Thomas. A clerk to Justice Souter deliberately misfiled the original complaint, which according to law ought to be heard. If it has no merit, the Court can declare that and dismiss it; justice is not served by minor functionaries playing Judge to protect their political favorites.
Let the system work as it ought.
November 24th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Check it out! The Honolulu Advertiser has been a part of this conspiracy from the day Barrack was born!
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/spazeman/obama-birth.gif
It looks like Frau Obama, after giving birth to Barrack in Kenya while wearing a burqua, holding a Koran, burning the American flag, and undergoing female circumcision (using the sharpened pages of a torn Bible) with her fellow five Muslim wives, made sure to call the local Honolulu newspaper to place an ad for his birth “in Hawaii.”
This established the conceit that Obama was American and paved the way for him to excel in college, graduate as the Law Review Editor at Harvard, steal money from little ghetto children as a community organizer, and cavort with Tony Rezko while he profited from shady land deals.
My god, the conspiracy runs so deep. To think that in 1961 Muslim terrorists were already planning to infiltrate the American presidency with a black socialist!
My eyes are opened and you have no excuses not to open yours.
Or, perhaps you could admit that:
(1) Barrack Obama was born in Hawaii, an American state, and a Certificate of Live Birth is plenty to establish this fact.
(2) The Obama campaign sent a team of lawyers to halt these complaints as to allow them to proceed would signal an open door for a slew of other unreasonable complaints. This is normal legal work, my friends.
(3) Whether Obama was born on American soil of naturalized American parents or not, he was born on American soil and therefore made an instant American citizen.
(4) Justice Thomas is a self-confessed, self-hating black man, as well as one of the worst Supreme Court Justices to have ever served.
(5) McCain, born on a military base of American parents, would have been just as qualified to be president as Obama is.
This argument is disgusting. It is politics of hate and xenophobia drummed up by an angry and shrinking GOP base. It is made further disgusting as Justice Thomas accepted it for consideration, and says nothing new of his character.
I could imagine a parallel universe where the Court did take up the case just to write a decision explaining the constitutional origin of the regulation on presidents and why it only applies to actual immigrants to the United States who were not born either of at least one American parent on foreign soil or born on American soil, period.
Then I could imagine them shaking their heads that one of the GOP’s best chances of regaining the presidency, Arnold Schwarzenegger, truly does not qualify.
November 24th, 2008 at 9:10 am
Here is a good opinion piece on the subject: http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/pol/930071925.html. I do not know this person, but it does show the frustration over the subject. For all you Obama supporters would say this is a non-story, can you tell me which hospital Obama was born at? I searched the web but two hospital keep coming up and both hospital will not confirm which one it is. Or why does his grandmother say she was present at his birth in Kenya? Is the audio on the web a lie (the one with sign statement from a priest saying it’s true)? I don’t know but no one wants to address this or debunk it. Again, this can be solved by having Obama produced his 1961 type-written Birth Certificate. He doesn’t and this story will keep growing until he does.
November 24th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Alister and everyone else that doesn’t like us double-checking should just mind their own business. If you don’t want to know the truth, stay out and leave us interested parties alone. What we do is none of your business.
November 24th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Uhm, why is it so hard for people to grasp that there is a difference between being a ‘citizen’ and a ‘natural born citizen’?
And that there is a chance, that Obama does not meet the criteria of being a ‘natural born citizen’?
Look, I still don’t think he’s telling the whole truth about his birth certificate, otherwise he would have released the long form version which is very different from tone that everyone is linking to on here.
However, this is a very serious constitutional question that needs to be answered. And if Obama (who has never claimed to be a ‘natural born citizen’ you can look it up) does meet the criteria, then he could cause more problems fighting it then if he steps aside and allows the process to fill the vacancy.
November 24th, 2008 at 9:31 am
As far as the Author’s WTC quip is concerned: If I place 90,000 Lbs of JP-6 in a 100 story building, light it, and hit the 90th floor with wrecking ball, it will NOT collapse at all, let alone straight down. Neither will the 7 story building next to it. Period.
November 24th, 2008 at 9:47 am
@Ciel — Bloggers are not reporters. Bias is not only acceptable, but expected. Think of bloggers as akin to the commentators you see on the op-ed page, or who host shows on cable news networks and radio. In that lights, there are plenty of conservative voices ( e.g. Parker, Goldberg, Kristol, Brooks, Krauthammer, O’Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage) whose bias is obvious. Rather than castigating someone for bias because you disagree with them you may be more comfortable seeking only sources which reinforce your own biases.
I had no idea so many whackjobs read Donklephant. Astonishing.
November 24th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Bump to what JBL says.
Obama will forever have a cloud of suspicion around him.
November 24th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Excellent post Ciel!! I feel as if ‘talking’ to BO’s supporters is like ‘talking’ to Helen Keller!
I am amazed at the idiocy of the Obama supporters!! They all want to refer you back to the “certificate” online like it is iron clad or your ‘racist’ if you believe this. You will believe those few web sites that show the suposedly ‘authentic’ BC but not the THOUSANDS OF WEBSITES WITH MOUNTING EVIDENCE showing the possiblity of fraud. Here is a very good link to WHY that BC online isn’t authentic if you care to educate yourself;
http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2008/11/22/obamas_born_conspiracy_forged_images,_phony_photos,_and_felony_fraud.thtml
BTW, as far as the racist thing, if Obama was white and McCain would have been black……I still would have voted for McCain!! This has NOT ONE THING to do with the color of his skin!!
EVERYONE deserves the truth on this (and many other matters about BO) to come out!! Why don’t you BO supporters, who are tax paying American citizens, think that YOU also don’t deserve the truth? I can’t figure out WHY you all don’t think this matter could easily be put to rest simply by BO getting and showing that actual ‘vault’ copy!! He has evaded this since Hilary brought it up in Jan!! WHAT IS HE HIDING? It is mind boggling to me!!
Obama talks about ‘transparency’ in the way he is going to Govern, BUT, he can’t even supply a simple long form BC that “every single person in the US that was ever born HAS!!!!!!!!!”
Seriously, you have to question where your loyalties are!! Is it being an American citizen that upholds our Constitution that is the glue for our freedom in this country or is it this ONE man that seems to have SO much to hide?
“The public cannot be too curious concerning the characters of public men.” —Samuel Adams
November 24th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Look, you are getting all worked into a lather over nothing. When a “Writ of Certiorari” is filed with the Supreme Court, a panel of 4 Justices decide whether to grant Certiorari. ONLY when 3 of 4 Justices on the panel believe the case merits discussion, will oral arguments be heard before the full supreme court. All properly filed writs are evaluated in this manner. So once this lunatic filed cert. (as is the legal jargon) the court was compelled to determine whether to “grant cert” or not. So this article, although I agree with its final conclusion, is wrong on the details.
The court is presented with numerous cases that will never make it to argument each year because the court does not feel that the legal question is important enough for the court’s time.
For all those lunatics (and yes you are lunatics) who are engaged in numerous and absurd conspiracies concerning President-elect Obama’s citizenship, I would love to sell you some prime oceanfront villas I have in Kansas. Please send me your payment in unmarked $100 bills (no liberty dollars please) and I will draw up the necessary deeds. (ps that last bit is a joke).
November 24th, 2008 at 9:51 am
HAHAHAHHAAHAA
Those who believe Obama was born anywhere except HI…
HATE AMERICIA.
You people must think we have the most inept, FBI, CIA and Dept Homeland Security on the planet.
ARE YOU PEOPLE RETARDED?
GET A LIFE.
November 24th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Van
So I guess despite what fatcheck has found about Obama, then it’s all false because it’s in your view liberal bias fact finding information.
November 24th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Natural born can and has been decided by the Congress. Birth place is only one factor, birth parents can also qualify one as natural born. Obama’s mother was a US citizen. Regardless of birth place the following makes him a natural born citizen as defined by Congress (as they were empowered to do so by the Constitution).
The 1790 Congress, many of whose members had been members of the Constitutional Convention, provided in the Naturalization Act of 1790 that “And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.” In addition George Washington was president of the Constitutional Convention and President of the United States when this bill became law.
November 24th, 2008 at 10:28 am
For Blackoutyears,
Thank you for pointing that out about “bloggers” and “reporters”. I stand corrected. For a minute there, I had forgotten that I was on a “blog” and not on an article. Guess I’m just a bit too used to the MSM bias out there!
Just a thought though…. after your comments about “whackjobs reading Donklephant”… I guess that makes you a “whackjob” too, huh??
;)
And look up the definition of “castigate”… Besides, I think Mr. Church is not such a whimp that he can’t take my remarks after he invites comments…
November 24th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Basic comprehension, folks. Donofrio asserts that the democrat, republican, and socialist presidential candidates were all ineligible to be placed on New Jersey’s ballot for president because they didn’t fit the Constitutional requirement of being “natural born”. This is not partisan.
We have an entire judicial system set up to ensure that the Constitution is followed. This is not moonbat kind of stuff.
Donofrio’s case has nothing to do with where Obama was born, but with a fact that Obama has already admitted: that he was born with dual citizenship, British and American. The suit itself has nothing to do with any kind of conspiracy but with publicly-acknowledged fact.
McCain’s eligibility depends on whether soldiers are considered ambassadors of the US while they serve on foreign soil. If McCain’s father was an ambassador of the US while serving in Panama, then John McCain is “natural born” according to Blackstone and English Common Law, on whose definitions the Constitution relied.
This is as mainstream as a Constitutional issue can possibly be. The fact that the media has blacked it out and that some are treating it as a moonbat issue just shows how woefully ignorant and polarized our people and press are. We don’t deserve to continue as a free nation. But I pray God will have mercy on us even if we are idiots.
November 24th, 2008 at 10:50 am
As noted above:Also IF (notice the big ‘if’) Obama was born outside the U.S. then he would not retain U.S. citizenship, since his mother had not reached the age of 19. “The U.S. citizen parent must have been physically present in the United States for a cumulative period (or periods totaling) ten years before the birth of the child, at least five years of which were after the U.S. citizen parent reached the age of fourteen. If this requirement is met, the child acquires U.S. citizenship under the provisions of Section 301(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act.”
Actually Obama’s mother was a few months short of meeting the five year standard. There are arguments that laws may have been changed and she may be grandfathered in, but until the actual circumstances of Obama’s birth are presented this analysis cannot be made.
November 24th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Ciel — I should have made it clear that I do not consider you to be among the whackjobs. By comparison to others in the comment section you are a paragon of rationality. However, I am aware of the definition of castigate and it was used appropriately; perhaps you’d approve of the equally pertinent *chastise*, *reprove* or *criticize* or maybe you’re arguing the merits of the usage based on the severity of your criticism. By all means substitute the ameliatory synonym of your choice in the interests of semantics. In the future perhaps it would be best to not preface your remarks with accusations of bias? It undermines all points which follow and, of course, exposes your own bias. Of course, you could strive to be bias-free yourself, but that is the more difficult path. Baby steps.
November 24th, 2008 at 10:59 am
To all those who incorrectly (or perhaps dishonestly) are calling this controversy “stupid:”
Allowing the Court to hear the case will settle everything, permanently. It’s the legal way to settle it. It’s the Constitutionally appointed way to settle it. It’s the only way to settle it.
Rico says:
Why would he “know full well” that the truth would come out? He’s been hiding details of his past successfully for his entire political career.
Marco Perches Says:
Only, it cannot possibly settle the question. Why? Because it’s online. To settle the matter, the President-elect can produce that same document in court, where it can be examined, challenged, and eventually — if it’s legitimate — declared legal.
Obama could long since have done this. It would have been the cheaper, easier, and quicker way to answer Mr. Berg’s lawsuit. Instead, the Obama campaign spend tens of thousands of dollars to argue that he had no standing. To the public, this makes it look as though he has something to hide. Obama now has nobody to blame but himself for the perception that he’s hiding something.
The question can be, and should be, settled in court.
TerenceC Says:
The folks correctly saying that, said it after the Court had settled the relevant question. You’re attempting to use it to prevent the Court from settling the question. And this avoidance of legitimate court scrutiny makes you a fair amount more “reich” than they are.
Let the Court settle the question. It’s the right way. It’s the American way. It’s the Constitutional way. It’s the only way.
November 24th, 2008 at 11:01 am
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
Whenever in doubt, disagreement or distress…the way many are acting now by using labels like “wingnut” “conspiracy nut” and “tinfoil hat crowd”…always attack! It’s a lot easier than debating the issues, isn’t it?
After all, it’s only a piece of real estate and a musty old document at stake (America and the U.S. Constitution).
November 24th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Um, don’t conflate things where we have plenty of evidence (Obama’s birth certificate) with events where we do not have enough (9/11).
I actually believe that the events of 9/11 happened more or less as the government tells us to believe. However, it’s important for skeptical people to remember the public has simply not been giving enough evidence to validate these claims, that most of the evidence has been suppressed from us.
A lot of the 9/11 conspiracy theories are ludicrous, but think of these as a response to not enough information. When the real story of 9/11 comes out, it’ll probably be much like the official one, but you can be sure there will be at least one bombshell in there…
November 24th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
what we need to do is file charges against State of Hawai and both Hawaii newspapers. The stae sent fake certificates to Obama and should be held accountable. the 2 hawai newspapers used a time machine to print Obama’s birth ntocie in 1961. Also Hawaii probably generated that fake death certifice for Elvis. The US State dept issued a passport plus those evil gov agcencies that vetted Obama and cleared him for top secret info need to be charged. Do you realize that Obama is currently being briefed with top secret info. What an incompetent security we have that cleared Obama with a fake birth certificate. The truth will come out, Obama’s birth on planet Krypton will become evident.
as there is no shred of real evidence that Obama was born elsewhere except Hawaii, this issue is going nowhere. Obama will be sworn in on Jan 20 and Elvis really is dead.
November 24th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
This is Bullshit. Don’t you think Hillary would have found something. With Bill being an ex President they could have found something if something was there to be found. Do you really think Hillary would concede if there was a way to take it from Obama. It’s amazing more people are concerned about Obama’s birth certificate but yet we’ve had a retard in the White House these past 8 years and nobody cared. A retard who attacked us on 9/11, and stole 2.3 Trillion dollars from the Pentagon on 09/10/01. Just because he’s dumb doesn’t mean he hasn’t screwed us.
November 24th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
This blog gets it all wrong. The suit is only tangentially about Obama. It really is a suit against the NJ Secretary of State. She clearly did NOT do her oversight duty because Calero, the Venezualen born candidate, WAS on the ballot. This shows that she didn’t vet any of the candidates to make sure that they qualified constitutionally to be President.
Also the main issue isn’t where Obama was born, but whether or not he held dual citizenship at birth because his father was a citizen of Kenya which was a colony of Great Britain whose laws at the time recognized a father’s offspring as British citizens. So Obama at the least held dual US and British citizenship at birth which MAY disqualify him from holding the US Presidency.
November 24th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Oh, and one more thing, the blog says “please refer to Politifact and Factcheck investigations” as if that’s proof enough. Since when do websites get to determine the validity of a Presidential candidate??? What court recognizes the opinions of a website as a legally binding source?
November 24th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Even the McCain campaign did everything to find something on Obama but couldn’t so please get over it!
November 24th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Hey genius. The supposed “birth certificates” on fact-check and fight thesmears are not birth certificates at all.
‘ “Hawaii does not allow birth records to be publicly viewed. This is why no one can go in and see the certificate. It is not because Obama is hiding them, or they were never there. Read this article from Foolocracy if you want more information.”
That’s right. Obama can’t even get his own original birth certificate. Sure.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Thanks to Clarence Thomas, the American Public will get a chance to find out the truth regarding 0bama’s origins.
It should not need to be pointed out that it is a grave disservice to the American people for the presumed president elect not to have cleared this matter up on his own initiative long ago.
Glenn Church appears to be on the side of the Left Wing Fascists by pointedly ‘outing’ Clarence Thomas here, and failing to admit that Thomas is one of the most honest, upright people ever to serve in the Supreme Court. Mr Church had better remember that, as the United States of America is a free nation of individual liberty and rights, Clarence Thomas is owed apologies, not more baseless calumnation, from the Left for taking these principled actions.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Alistair Says:
Even the McCain campaign did everything to find something on Obama
—————
So says you.
but couldn’t so please get over it!
—————
Why not let the chips fall where they may? The truth will emerge eventually. Are you scared that it will?
November 24th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
“Anyone who doubts that Obama was not born in Hawaii,…”
Hey, I don’t doubt it.
IAC, sure sounds like a Freudian slip by someone with a hard core lying Left Wing agenda.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
It is a sad day for this country when the best minds in the Republican Party with the full resources of the FBI, CIA, and Justice Department (under Bush) with two full years to work with, could not come up with credible definitive proof of Obama’s citizenship. To what extent that speaks to their ability to run a country amidst the complex and tumultuous political/economic climate of the world is certainly something worthy of discussion. More so than questions of Obama’s citizenship? Less so than the whereabouts of Mullah Omar?
The question with those who continue to question Obama’s citizenship is not what evidence will it take to convince them of said citizenship but rather is it possible to convince them. Thus far, all evidence offered has been dismissed out of hand. These people simply believe that he is not a citizen and, within that belief, there can be no evidence just as with a four-year-old child with tightly shut eyes proclaiming that because she or he cannot see you, he or she can be seen by you. Just as with that child, it is pointless to confront them with logical discourse or reason. Or evidence. At least with the child comes the certainty that the belief succumbs to the bitter insistence of reality.
A more meaningful response would be to turn the pursuit of the question of Obama’s citizenship into an albatross to hung about the neck of any politician, any judge who even appears to be considering it. Trot it out at every future political rally. Politicians know which side their bread is buttered on even if their constituents (evidently) do not. They will quickly and publicly distance themselves from the issue.
November 24th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Hamlet
Go to factcheck.com!! Oops!! Oh no that’s a liberal bias website too!
November 24th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
“Anyone who doubts that Obama was not born in Hawaii, please refer to Politifact and Factcheck investigations.”
Glenn, you’re an incoherent, dime-a-dozen hack blogger and this is a pathetic read.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Google search polarik.
He has destroyed the obamamaniac forgeries and fraud.
If there is still law in America we will see proof from Mr. Obama of his qualifications.
If there is no law, there is no America.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Plumb Boob - this is a moronic string but loaded with sarcasm and humor which makes it OK in my opinion. Live birth announcements apparently aren’t good enough, certificate of live birth from the State of HI apparently is not good enough (Oahu Island didn’t even have a pediatric ward open until after August of 1961 so he was probably born by a mid wife which was and still is quite common in HI). What do you need a copy of his foreskin pressed between 2 pineapples certified picked by DelMonte on 4 Aug, 1961? This is crap and you know it…..legal proceedings aside - this is a question of the SCOTUS being asked for their opinion on a manner that is none of their business. If the state of HI records a live birth that is legal….period!
November 24th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
‘AG’ provides a perfect example of an ‘irresponsible person’s’ inability to perform rational analysis or perceive her own hypocritical double standards coupled with a pathological need to always point fingers at whomever she is opposed to.
People like her are controlled wholly by their immature emotions and are an embarrassment to serious, thoughtful people.
November 24th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Since the liberal illuminati is so lovestruck by this man, I don’t think that it would make a difference if his citizenship was found to be invalid
November 24th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Alistair Says:
Go to factcheck.com!! Oops!! Oh no that’s a liberal bias website too!
—————
Tell all your friends: FactCheck.org is useless:
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/09/23/tell-all-your-friends-factcheckorg-is-useless/
November 24th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Who is saying he wasn’t born in Hawaii? Nobody of consequence. The point is that he doesn’t have NATURAL-BORN US citizenship, because his father wasn’t an American citizen and his mother didn’t live the requisite number of years at the time in order for him to get citizenship from her. Obama is a naturalized US citizen–not natural-born–hence not able to be President.
I don’t see what’s so hard about that for people to grasp.
November 24th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Hamlet:
Michelle Malkin has no credibility. She’s the same woman that accuse Obama of voter fraud in Ohio which didn’t happen and defended a McCain worker who claimed that she was beaten by an Obama support which was false.
November 24th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Factcheck and politifact are bogus mythbuster organizations. It’s better to quote real sources.
November 24th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Press Briefing by Deputy Press Secretary Tony Fratto
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/11/20081124-1.html
Go down to the bottom of the page and read the last question asked and the answer that was given. The question was actually asked at a press conference! This story is actually growing in strength despite the MSM’s silence on the matter.
Now the question to spur on more speculation: grin
Was there absolutely no merit to the question and that is why he shrugged it off, did he lack enough knowledge on the subject to warrant a no response, or did he know something and was instructed to make no comment? You would think that if he knew Obama was “natural born” then he would have simply said so. Instead he let the mystery continue.
Hehehe evil grin wild hysterical laughter
November 24th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Alistair Says:
Michelle Malkin has no credibility.
—————
Again, so says you.
You got ADD or what? She’s not the source of the info on “Fact Check” - she merely provided a link to it - a blog called Patterico’s Pontifications.
She’s the same woman that accuse Obama of voter fraud in Ohio which didn’t happen
—————
Not so: http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/23/update-voter-fraud-house-ballots-in-ohio-will-be-canceled/
and defended a McCain worker who claimed that she was beaten by an Obama support which was false.
—————
Ditto: Why that McCain volunteer’s “mutilation” story smells awfully weird; Update: Police to administer polygraph; conflicting evidence at scene; Update: Hoaxer confesses -
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/23/why-that-mccain-volunteers-mutilation-story-smells-awfully-weird/
That’s two swings and two clean misses. Whoa. I’d be careful about dismissing people as having no credibility if I were you. Classic projection.
Now back to the central issue: Why doesn’t Obama simply authorize the release of his long form birth certificate/COLB, and put the matter to rest? Is that such an unreasonable request? People with nothing to hide do not hide things. As was once said about Richard M. Nixon, whom “O” seems to be channeling.
November 24th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Concerned:
by ‘AG’ do you mean me? If so, would you clarify what (in my post) you mean by ‘hypocritical double standard’ and ‘pathological need’ to finger point? And indicate which ‘immature emotions’ were evinced? Cite specific examples please.
If you do not mean me, never mind.
November 24th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
States have been REQUIRED by the Patriot Act to convert to standardized birth certificates laser-printed on security paper. The originals can then be shredded. It was a serious security problem that it was easy to steal blank birth cetificate forms, fill them out with an old typewriter, scrawl a signature on them, and use a fake ebossed seal. Just like most banks, for the last 20 years or so, no longer return your checks. They call it SAFEKEEPING. DO they really SAFE KEEP your original checks…No, they digitally convert them and then destroy them. It’s a flashback to the “Leave it to Beaver” era when people think that the hospital you were born in, or the Court House can open a filing cabinet and show you an original birth certificate from decades ago
November 24th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Alistair Says:
Michelle Malkin has no credibility.
—————
Again, so says you. You got ADD or what? MM wasn’t the source of the “Fact Check” story; she merely provided a link to the source, which was a blog called Patterico’s Pontifications.
She’s the same woman that accuse Obama of voter fraud in Ohio which didn’t happen
—————
Not quite: http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/23/update-voter-fraud-house-ballots-in-ohio-will-be-canceled/
and defended a McCain worker who claimed that she was beaten by an Obama support which was false.
———-
Untrue: http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/23/why-that-mccain-volunteers-mutilation-story-smells-awfully-weird/
That’s two swings and two clean misses. I’d be careful about accusing others of lacking credibility. In your case it is classic projection.
November 24th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
My conclusion after having served my country is what Shakespeare stated in Romeo and Juliet…”A pox on both of your houses!” I’ve decided that my fellow Americans do not wish to obey any laws of our nation. No one obeys the maximum speeds on highways nor do they use the passing lanes properly. They all drive while drinking, putting on makeup and talking and texting on cell phones. The officers of the law do not enforce anything anymore. I fought for this country and the spoiled brats enhabiting it for nothing. Now they flaught our Constitution which is the document I was sworn to protect. I cannot overcome this lawlessness so the only thing I can do is put a bullit in my chest. I choose my heart as it is broken and rather than a headshot which would cause undue horror to those EMS personnel that will find me. Most men shoot towards the temple but most men are selfish and a chest wound is less messy for the clean up people. I would suggest to all Americans that feel this same lawlessness in the land culminating in President-Elect Obama’s utter disregard for the Constitution should rise up and fomet civil disobediance as did Ghandi and the Rev. King as the only way out of this situation depending on SCOTUS.
November 24th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Phillip:
President-Elect Obama has full filled Rev. King dream so says his son.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCxZilcBSTo
November 24th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
There’s a lot of heated back and forth here, but this could all be cleared up with release of the original long form birth certificate by Obama. That document has got to be the tell-all. What’s the big deal Barry, why can’t we see it?
I can see this case dooming Obama from several different conspiracy theory aspects, all undermining the constitution or just flat out not telling the truth.
The real kicker would be if it is shown that Barry was born in Kenya and the birth was registered in Hawaii. Regardless of what citizen status that would make Obama, it would serve to prove that he can’t even tell his own nation’s people what country he was really born in. How could Obama possibly respond to that?
I’ve been following this for months and truly believe that Obama is hiding something, but the audacity of him lying to us about his true birth country would be huge. It seems crazy that Obama would attempt to hide that on his way to the presidency.
His giant lie would be sufficient to topple him immediately. Seems like a pretty wild notion, but I’ll be break-dancin’ for hours if that news ever gets served. This upset would be a huge blow to the poisonous liberal cause that is seething through the roots of America. For the commentors here who have made statements in support of Obama and his fight to resist release of his records, how would you feel if it is proven that Obama has lied to you about this? -I’m curious, really. Would that affect your support for him, or is the fact that he is messianic liberal crusader good enough?
I know many of us on the right would be joyous that our gut feelings were proven correct, and more than supportive of the heavy blow dealt to the idealogy of the left. I hope that it is proven that Obama was born in Kenya for our battle against the lunatic left, but it just seems too damn crazy to fathom as reality.
I like the theory that the communist Hawaii resident Frank Marshall Davis was railing Barry’s under-age mother and then knocked her up at the young age of 18. If that is exposed, how does Obama respond? It would explain a lot about Obama’s early mentoring by Davis and Obama’s gravitation to “Marxist Professors” (Why would YOU vote for that???) during his college years. (Oh yeah, he sealed his college records from us as well, but wrote a book about his worldly experiences, so that’s good enough for the people too, right??)
Barack Obama, show us your birth certificate and college records if you want the job. -Just like we have to. You’re not gonna get it if you don’t.
November 24th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
WOLVERINES:
Give up Man!! Obama will be President 1/20/09
Go to Factcheck.com or go read at the top of Doug Mataconis story. He happens to be a Libertarian!
November 24th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Allistair,
First off — I’m not saying that anyone is correct in saying that Obama is guilty of this. However, the question HAS gone unanswered by him and his campaign. Every time this was brought up against McCain he immediately answered and gave access. Obama gave the “documents” to his allies, and not to the people making claims, or to the judge in each of the suits….that’s the main difference.
Also, regardless of how the supreme court decides this, it is an interesting piece of law that must be answered. If a common citizen in this country cannot question the qualifications of their leaders because the media has not reported on it (and they have not, you have to get the information from the blogs, and websites), then we are headed for a dictatorship. Thomas Jefferson argued against such despotism. It may sound “over the top,” but go spend some time at the Jefferson Memorial and just sit there and read what is emblazoned on the walls of the monument.
Regardless of whether or not it is true, the Supreme Court must step in and do it’s job if the Executive Branch (FEC), the Legislative Branch (Dianne Fienstein and her committee), and the Watchdogs (the media) have not done their job. By time of the Iowa Caucus Obama Fever had so caught on that NO ONE was willing to vet him. Jeremiah Wright, Farrakahn, Ayers — they are all red herrings. This should have been the very first question brought up.
If it turns out everything is legit, life goes on. However, if it turns out that he lied to the country, we need the ability to call him on it.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:30 am
If you are born of a US citizen in a foreign country, your parents have the option of getting you a US CITIZEN passport.
The previous commenter is quite right, the foreign birth issue should be legally examined and addressed. Because the Founders’ intended the clause as a firewall against foreign (at the time, British) infiltration by Crown loyalists, not to bar people like McCain or Obama from becoming President.
For the record, you shouldn’t care if Obama was born in Marseilles. He’s American. So is McCain. You who are wrapped up in this issue are wankers.
November 25th, 2008 at 7:58 am
Certificate of live birth from the State of HI would certainly help, if presented in court. Posted on the Internet, it means nothing.
If you got stopped by a cop for speeding and he asked for your driver’s license, would it be legitimate for you to say to him “It’s posted on my web site, here’s the URL?” If you applied for a passport and needed to prove your citizenship, do you suppose the Dept of State would accept a birth cert posted on the web? Why not?
Because a web image is not a legal document, that’s why not.
This is a very simple issue. Citizens have a Constitutional right to have their grievances heard in court. Some citizens feel they were defrauded by candidates who were not qualified to run, and by public officials who did not vet them properly. They have standing to sue. Your opinion regarding the merits of their complaint has no standing in court, and none in law. Ergo, they should be heard. It could be the silliest claim in history, but they have the right to be heard in court. Period. End of discussion.
Have a nice day.
November 25th, 2008 at 9:01 am
To be clear, what Obama has produced is a CERTIFICATION of Live Birth. That is opposed to a CERTIFICATE of Live Birth, or the original BIRTH CERTIFICATE. Here is the important part, a CERTIFICATION of Live Birth is insufficient to get a passport, let alone prove that you are a “natural born citizen”. It does not list the name of the hospital, the doctors that made the deliver and other details that are vital to this issue.
The only person that can produce a CERTIFICATE of Live Birth or the original BIRTH CERTIFICATE is Obama, who can sign a release and pay $12.00 and produce it. So all of you out there that keep referring people to factcheck and other websites that show the CERTIFICATION of Live Birth get over it. It is not proof and we are all still waiting for Obama to produce the relevant document. It appears Obama is willing to risk a Constitutional crisis over $12.00. Does that sound right?
November 25th, 2008 at 10:10 am
But this is a states rights issue with the state of Hawaii and government does not have the right to go into somebodies personal birth certification. factcheck.com has conclude that he was born in Hawaii.
November 25th, 2008 at 10:39 am
What is a natural born citizen?
Can someone born with, dual citizenship as was Obama, thus with split allegiances at birth, be a natural born citizen?
It is undisputed that Obama’s father was a British citizen and his mother was a US citizen. Under the operation of British law in 1961 when Obama was born, he automatically became a British citizen. This is not some unimportant fixation of right wing nuts, but rather a substantial Constitutional issue, having nothing to do with whether or not Obama was born in Hawaii, his actual place of birth being a side issue not relevant to this argument.
I think it is highly important that the Supreme Court accept the Donofrio appeal and quickly then make a decision on the issue one way or another. I think it would be tragic for the Supreme Court to let this issue be slip away.
Should the case be decided against Obama, of course there will be civil disorder and anger on the part of some people, but there would still be an orderly transition of power in compliance with the Constitutional provisions for such a case where there is a disqualified “President”. Should the case be decided in favor of Obama, then there will likely be no civil disorder and those opposed to Obama will accept him as the rightful President.
If the Supreme Court lets this issue go unexamined, there will be a much more dangerous situation. In the minds of those understanding this Constitutional question and those who don’t understand but think there is a conspiracy, the President will be viewed as illegal. This issue will not go away. The already growing disrespect for the US government will accelerate. The law of unintended consequences is not dead.
November 25th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Can someone who believes that there is a conpiracy involved here please tell me why the Republican govenor of Hawaii is in on it?
November 25th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Sid commented – “Can someone born with, dual citizenship as was Obama, thus with split allegiances at birth, be a natural born citizen?”
Sid, there are millions of Americans with dual citizenship and all of them are Natural Born Citizens of the U.S.
November 25th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Sid, you argue that:
—“ It is undisputed that Obama’s father was a British citizen and his mother was a US citizen. Under the operation of British law in 1961 when Obama was born, he automatically became a British citizen. This is not some unimportant fixation of right wing nuts, but rather a substantial Constitutional issue, having nothing to do with whether or not Obama was born in Hawaii, his actual place of birth being a side issue not relevant to this argument.“—
Millions of other Americans have the same dual citizenship status from other countries as well. It is irrelevant.
8 of the first American Presidents were born before 1776, subjects of the British Crown. 2 more were born between 1776 and the ratification of the constitution in 1787.
November 25th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
The ones who sound silly are the Obama supporters trying as hard as they can to make those that question the reason Obama has 3 teams of lawyers and is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting the release of his BC in making us think thats normal. Sorry, it isnt working.
Snap out of your Obama haze.
November 25th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Barry says: -”Obama has 3 teams of lawyers and is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting the release of his BC”–
Proof please?
November 25th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Can anyone explain why the top state health department official in Hawaii has confirmed the Obama was born in Hawaii?
November 25th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
John Adams says: —”To be clear, what Obama has produced is a CERTIFICATION of Live Birth. That is opposed to a CERTIFICATE of Live Birth, or the original BIRTH CERTIFICATE. Here is the important part, a CERTIFICATION of Live Birth is insufficient to get a passport, let alone prove that you are a “natural born citizen”. It does not list the name of the hospital, the doctors that made the deliver and other details that are vital to this issue.”—
Sorry, John, short forms are acceptable as long as they are certified by the registrar.
According to the U.S. department of state, “*A certified birth certificate has a registrar’s raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar’s office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.” Note that it says only that [b]some[/b] versions of the short form [b]may[/b] not be acceptable, not that all versions are not.
But you bring up a good point. Obama has a passport.
How come the republican controlled state department has never released any data on this issue?
November 25th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
You people do realize there were birth announcements for Barack Obama in Hawaii papers in August of ‘61. So either you believe that the archives of two papers have been infiltrated and faked or you believe that the conspiracy to elect a Kenyan as the American President stretches back to the day of his birth. Or, hey, maybe you can believe he was born in Hawaii. But since when is Occam’s Razor of any use to conspiracy theorists?
November 25th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Plumb Bob (& others):
Do you really think the wingnuts will shut up if the Supreme Court justices, as they probably will, refuse to grant certiorari? Of course not! They’ll simply fold the SC into the conspiracy mix, along with the State of Hawai‘i, the State of Illinois, the Honolulu Advertiser, Obama’s parents and maternal grandparents, all the major media (including the right-wing Fox and Washington Times), Factcheck, Snopes, Fact or Fiction, every official of the national Democratic party, and all 50 state elections officials. I know bigger is often better, but this is way over the top!
As to “standing to sue,” courts have consistently ruled that ordinary citizens have very limited ability to sue government officials. I may not challenge in court the use of my tax dollars for what I consider immoral purposes. I may not go to court to claim that a speed limit is too low (or too high). I cannot challenge the moral fitness to serve of an elected official if it is revealed that he or she has had an extramarital affair. In all these cases, courts have consistently denied standing to sue to individual citizens. This is as much a matter of practicality as of law, as the notion of millions of citizens rushing to court to protest their tax dollars being spent on the military, tobacco prevention, tobacco price supports, aid to Communist governments, aid to non-Communist governments, etc. ad nauseum is simply too appalling to contemplate. But with that background, it would be astonishing if the Supreme Court were to grant standing to sue to an individual claiming that the state has not vetted the presidential candidates well enough.
As to what is a “natural born citizen,” the words of the Article II are to some degree superseded by the Fourteenth Amendment, which opens with the words “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” Consistently over the years, courts have ruled that this means that those born in the U. S. are “natural born,” in distinction to those naturalized, or granted citizenship after immigration. Furthermore, in 1790 the Congress passed and President Washington signed a law defining natural born citizen as anyone born to American parents, wherever they happened to be at the time of the birth.
The argument about Obama being born in Kenya and his mother being too young should be blown out of the water by a 1982 law which modified the age requirements of the old law, and made it retroactive to 1952. Under the 1982 law, Obama’s mother qualified, and since the law was made retroactive to 1952, there should be no question.
Of course, all that really means is that in 1982, Congress and President Reagan (who signed the bill) joined the conspiracy to make Obama eligible for the presidency. Right?
November 25th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Alan Stewart Carl:
Thank you for this information.
November 25th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
I was born in Virginia & my brother was born in Hawaii. We moved to Hawaii as my father was Navy soon after my birth. I have a short version COLB as does my brother both issued in Hawaii. Mine was a registration my brothers was the actual birth certificate (short form). Mine says as does Obama’s “Certification of Live Birth”, both mine and Obama’s say Honolulu Hawaii on it. However as I looked at the form Obama placed on the website, his says in the left lower corner “Date filed by Registrar” mine says “Date Accepted by State Registrar”. My brothers (short form) says “Certificate of Live Birth”, not “Certification” as mine and Obama’s say. And why does Obama’s Certification form not have the Accepted by State Registrar as mine does, it’s printed on the same version of the form mine is, so what “Registrar” filed his form it was not a State Person???
So it appears Obama’s was tampered with.
November 25th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
OB is a narcissistic freak of nature, and boy is he NOT stupid. But he knows the majority of us high class US citizens are stupid and he played 52% like flutes. You will never see the vault copy; this election is already bought and paid for; no refunds, no exchanges. Thanks morons.
November 25th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Dan L:
Thanks Dan! But these right wing nuts are so paranoid.
November 25th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
1. the birth announcement in the Hawaiian paper could have been submitted by his maternal grandparents who were living in Hawaii at the time of his birth. In other words, Obama could have been born in Kenya, and his proud grandparents could have taken out the announcement.
2. the birth certificate he has submitted is a Late Registration Copy. He has yet to submit his ORIGINAL certificate. The Hawaiian Governor even made a point of saying it’s “sealed”. If there is, in fact, nothing detrimental on his birth certificate, why is he continuing to pay three (3) law firms to defend the (mounting) lawsuits? Instead of paying, at minimum, $1000 per hour per attorney, he could pony up $12 and have it done. And if we are on the topic of TRANSPARENCY (which he hasn’t been with his birth certificate), why doesn’t he put forth is academic records, medical records, and passport like the other three candidates did!? More questions as to WHY… what is he hiding?
3. the Late Registration Copy has been analyzed as a forgery by an expert who is going to be used for testimony: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDIVEfVGLBQ&eurl=http://www.obamacrimes.com/
4. Obama went to school in Indonesia which required citizenship in Indonesia. Indonesia doesn’t allow dual citizenship, so to attend school there (which is fact that he did) he would have had to denounce his US citizenship for an Indonesian citizenship. Upon return to the US, he would have been reintroduced as a naturalized citizen. Per our Constitution, naturalized citizens cannot be elected President (or Senate for that matter).
5. Kenyan Ambassador confirms Obama was born in Kenya… as well as BOTH of his grandmothers, AND his place of birth is already a historical site in Kenya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH4GX3Otf14
6. The US Supreme Court is going to conference about the case per Clarence Thomas (the NJ case). Other cases, such as in CA with Alan Keyes and the Independent Party, are still outstanding. All of these would be dropped if Obama produced his ORIGINAL birth certificate that is presently under seal in Hawaii.
Why doesn’t he squash this!? Why does he want to keep wracking up attorney’s fees at the rate of $1,000K per hour? Why doesn’t he want to calm public fears and concerns?
Makes you think he MUST have something to hide…
November 25th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Pink Osupasta:
The newspaper is no fabrication and election is over! Obama 1/20/09
November 25th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Caren:
Does that include 95% of African Americans that voted for Obama too?
November 25th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Alistar:
If it’s as simple as “the election is over”, why is Obama still paying $1,000K per hour attorney fees rather than coughing up his original birth certificate? This situation is getting messier as each day passes.
November 25th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
This is what makes no sense. The DNC and Obama have spent thousands upon thousands fighting having to prove he is a U.S. natural born citizen. They have hired a dozen lawyers. Why? All it would take is a certified copy of his birth certificate that cost less than twenty dollars. That would have put this to rest. This is not rocket science.
November 25th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Pink Osupasta:
Where is your proof that he’s still paying his attorney and why has the Republican Gov. of Hawaii request of Obama to release his birth certificate? Do you consider her a RINO?
November 26th, 2008 at 1:58 am
Wow you Obama haters are stupid; no wonder your party is in such bad shape. Obama was born in Hawaii, like he says, like the State of Hawaii says, like his birth certificate says, like his birth announcement in the Honolulu paper says, and so forth. Why is that so hard to believe?
Why would his mom have traveled to Kenya (a 3rd World country with few quality hospitals) while 8 or 9 months pregnant to have a baby? And why would a newspaper in Hawaii print a birth announcement saying Obama was born in Hawaii when he was really born in Kenya?
Did somebody post a link to this on Free Republic or something?
November 26th, 2008 at 4:20 am
You lefties are such pseudo-intellectuals.
Scan most of the dismissive snarky comments by the lefties and then compare them to the reasoned and logical comments of most of the open minded.
–Calling Justice Thomas stupid.
—BO won “Get over it”
—-Are you people retarded?
The really sad thing is that the loony left does not give a damn whether he is actually legally allowed to be in the office. They wouldn’t have cared if he was a muslim. They don’t give a crap if he secretly holds “Rev” Wrights racist views. And they don’t care if he ran around with and admired radical muslims and terrorists and their criminal supporters. And they sure as hell don’t care that he has lied (not flip flops and not mis-statements) but big fat through the teeth lies.
And I love the deeply thought out, “I saw his bc on line”..really I mean freakin really?
So you think every picture you see online is real?
And you don’t get that the BC even if it is valid DOES NOT FIX ALL THE QUESTIONS?
The fact is the left does not care about right and wrong or truth, and fairness and honesty are the subject of jokes. The liberal mantra is;
“The ends always justify the means”.
BTW; I was a Dem sponsored senate page at one time.
November 26th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Fillmore, I could say the same about the far right, and their support for the previous administration.
This is more or less a centrist blog rather than a lefty blog. What it is not, however, is a far right blog. In other words, you guys are free to post here, but you won’t get much agreement when you spout insults and conspiracy theories.
I am not a lefty, by the way. I consider myself a centrist. How many lefties were glad Obama kept Gates as SECDEF instead of putting in a partisan Democrat?
November 26th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Most of you are soooo ignorant. The fact is that John McCain was NOT born on a military base. That would be is irrelevant anyway. He was born in the hospital in Colon, PANAMA, a FOREIGN country (while technically within the footprint of the canal zone, which again is irrelevant since it NEVER has been a U.S. Territory, Colon & Panama City were excluded under in the agreement with the U.S.) He is not NATURAL born. SORRY. “Natural Born Citizen” ONLY applies IF you run for president. Article II section 1. Other citizenship issues are under the 14th amendment, but NOT the president. Being born in the U.S. does not make you a “Natural Born Citizen”. I was born in Rochester, NY. My dad’s family has been in America since before 1686. My mother on the other hand was a French war bride, resident alien, with a green card. She became a citizen when I was about 10. BUT, when I was BORN, one of my parents was a citizen of a foreign country, giving me dual citizenship and loyalties to another country. I was born a CITIZEN not a “Natural Born Citizen” under the Constitution, but I can’t be president.
Obama admits on his website that he had dual citizenship and his father was a British subject when Barack was born, making him ineligible to be president as he is not a “Natural Born Citizen” under article II section 1 of the constitution even IF he were born in Hawaii, which also is in question.
I have spent hours & hours researching this and unless you do the same, you’ll just be embarrassing yourselves exposing your ignorance.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
As to what is a “natural born citizen,” the words of the Article II are to some degree superseded by the Fourteenth Amendment, which opens with the words “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
Sorry, this has NOTHING to do with the qualifications for president.
Consistently over the years, courts have ruled that this means that those born in the U. S. are “natural born,” in distinction to those naturalized, or granted citizenship after immigration.
Sorry again, they are Born not natural born.
Furthermore, in 1790 the Congress passed and President Washington signed a law defining natural born citizen as anyone born to American parents, wherever they happened to be at the time of the birth.
Sorry again,
In 1795 this law was REPLACED removing the words “natural born”. You might have a point if you were born between 1790 & 1795 and you definitely would meet the age requirement.
Millions of other Americans have the same dual citizenship status from other countries as well. It is irrelevant.
Sorry, they are not running for president
8 of the first American Presidents were born before 1776, subjects of the British Crown. 2 more were born between 1776 and the ratification of the constitution in 1787.
Assuming your numbers are correct, this is EXACTLY why they included the “grandfather clause” for themselves, fully knowing they did not qualify as “Natural Born Citizens”. They were born on what was now American soil, while it was subject to British rule. Giving them, AT BIRTH, dual citizenship and loyalties to a foreign country.
November 26th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
To all you people who are so gosh-darned concerned about the constitution now, where have you been while George W. Bush shredded it?
As for Obama’s birth certificate, let it go to the SCOTUS. If that is what it takes to shut up the most ignorant amongst us, go for it.
John Purdue, your post had me in tears. Very good.
November 26th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Eric E Rumsey
Give it Up Eric Obama will be your President 1/20/09
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/11/26/1689515.aspx
And Eric if one parent was a natural born citizan then it should also disqualify are 2nd President Thomas Jefferson since his mother wasn’t born in the U.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Randolph_Jefferson
November 26th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
John Purdue Says:
(4) Justice Thomas is a
self-confessed, self-hatingstrong, confident, proud, independent black man, vastly superior to the late, unlamented Brennan and Marshall,as well as one, two of the worst Supreme Court Justices to have ever served.There, fixed your little racist rant, John Turdue.
November 26th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Obama was without doubt born in Kenya and out-of-wedlock. Although, his “alleged” Kenyan father married Obama’s pregnant mother in Hawaii he was already married to a Kenyan woman at the time. Under Hawaiian law said marriage was “void ab initio” and not merely voidable at the election of one of the parties. Said marriage was invalid from the onset. See applicable Hawaiian statutory and case law. Further, United States law provides that a child born out-of-wedlock in a foreign country to an American mother citizen and an alien father gains United States’ citizenship at birth if the mother had been physically present in the United States for a continuous period of one year prior to the child’s birth. The “original birth certificate” and “birth country” are moot issues “if” Obama’s attorneys can document and prove the Hawaiian marriage was bigamous. My major problem with Obama and the verification of his Presidential qualifications is that he “knowingly” covered up his Kenyan birth (although he likely is a qualified Presidential candidate nevertheless) fearing such disclosure to the American voter could cost him the election. Since he has shown his true colors, Obama’s Presidency will be tainted from the onset. His premeditated “cover up” of his Kenya birth country makes him just another sleazy politician that doesn’t warrant the trust of the American people…
November 27th, 2008 at 9:40 am
He was born in Hawaii! Give it up!!
http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/08/wingnuts-away-.html
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/11/26/1689515.aspx
November 27th, 2008 at 10:35 am
i think this whole thing is stupid. many people are sore losers and just cant get over it. wasnt allan keyes lambasted in 2004 by obama? keyes wasnt a citizen of the state of illinois no one made a stink about that? and clarence thomas he is a friggin disgrace to men he got away with sexually harassing anita hill and rewarded for it by being put on the supreme court. i remeber all this. people need to look at the facts before they go back and tell everyone esle to look at them. the time the supreme couyrt shouldve done something right was the 2000 election but they were corrupt and selected the president instead of allowing the president that was truly elected by the people in al gore. right wingers are pussies and claim to be conservative its a disgrace. i am a moderate i am registered democrat but i vote whoever i feel is going to do the job. and i voted obam