The Sad, Slow Decline Of Ron Paul
By Justin Gardner | Related entries in 2008 Election, 3rd Party, Republicans, Ron Paul
Super Tuesday was a big fat bust for Ron Paul, and yet he soldiers on for the GOP nomination.
Why?
Paul did better in the Northern Midwest caucus states, placing second in Montana, third in North Dakota and fourth, but with 15 percent of the vote in Minnesota. He also placed third with 17 percent at the Alaska Republican caucus and, despite a fourth place finish in initial voting, got 3 national convention votes in a backroom deal with former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee in West Virginia.Those finishes, while they won’t secure Paul a huge chunk of votes at the Republican National Convention in Minneapolis this summer, are enough for him to stay in the race, according to his campaign spokesman, Jesse Benton, who yesterday said Paul would reevaluate after Super Tuesday and described Paul’s quest for the White House as “not completely quixotic.”.
Paul had said earlier in the campaign that he would look at Super Tuesday as a gauge for his presence in the race. As long as the support and the fundraising remained, he said he would stay in it. Paul is over $5 million in fundraising this year.
No, it’s not completely quixotic, just 98% quixotic. You see, Paul’s campaign is still holding out hope that McCain and Huckabee will both be hit by two separate meteors and the entire Republican base will change their opinions on what they’re looking for in a GOP candidate. Hey, it could happen! Umm, and…Freedom!!!
Do know that I had some amount of respect for Paul last year and going into the fall, but after the past couple months it’s pretty much all gone. This is becoming a vanity campaign, and just because he can convince people to give him money doesn’t mean he should.
So here’s the deal Ron…either declare that you’re gonna run an independent bid for the presidency or give it up. We all know that the GOP nomination hasn’t been in the cards for you for quite some time now, but you’re screwing with the emotions of a lot of people who believe in you. In fact, I’m sure some of them will show up on this post (as they inevitably do) and rip into me, tell me how awesome you are, etc., but you have to make a decision soon to give yourself a real shot at being part of the debate next fall or try in vain to be part of a GOP convention that will boo you out of the arena.
The choice is yours…
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February 7th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
You obviously have no grasp of the knowledge of the Ron Paul Camp. Do you honestly believe that a “fringe” candidate like Ron Paul could get elected to 10 terms in congress by not knowing how to play the game?
You count him out to early…. His war chest is swelling and he knows exactly what he is doing.
I long for your thoughts when he becomes President.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Actually… he’s holding out in hopes of a brokered convention. You should look into it.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Mr Gardner,
It is sad, but unfortunately it rings true. I am die-hard Ronpaulblican. I’ve given $700+ to the campaign, blogged for hours, converted my family and friends, led my precinct and now the dream seems to be at an end.
I can truly say, he has energized a previously apathetic American. He has painted my political pallette and there is no going back for me. The message must go on even if this candidate cannot.
If he doesn’t try for the big “I”, I will still write him in come November because I couldn’t imagine a devout Catholic like me voting for anyone else (well, maybe Alan Keyes, but he’s not even trying).
February 7th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
He’s got a ton of money and he’s making a major impact on the debate. Nobody talked about borrowing money from China or printing too much money before him. He’s winning hearts and minds to his message all the time. Go to tech president and look at the myspace friends of all the candidates. His is still growing rapidly all the time. This is serving a valuable purpose of creating a new movement for young people to join. The longer he is on the stage, the better.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Informed Voter, the issue isn’t whether or not Paul can get elected to congress. This is about the presidency, and that’s a whole other ball of wax. And I’ll be longing for your thoughts when he doesn’t become President.
Scott, I’ve looked into a brokered convention. It’s not going to happen on the Republican side. Please be realistic people, it’s heartbreaking to read these comments and think you all are so snowed by Paul.
DD, OH, well said. More people like you need to start talking out publicly because you’re the type of person who made Paul what he is in the first place and you can remake him just as easily.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Why bow out now as long as the GOP doesn’t actually kick him out? They certainly have done all they can to ignore him with the help of the MSM, but the messege is still true. I would wager many of his supporters are not in the GOP. I know because I wasn’t. I took the effort to change my affiliation to vite Tuesday. Many did not. I know because I talk to many of my friends who did not that support Paul.
I find it funny to some degree that so many say they like him but that he is not viable. I listen to Lou Dobbs say 99% of what Paul says but then Dobbs will say there is no candidate holding his positions. I hear conservative talking heads like Limbaugh and Hannity, Ingram, Coulter…. who say they hate McCain, touting the reasons why…but none ever mention Paul holds the same positions they do. I think they are hypocrites and as such I don’t like hypocrites. Paul is an honorable man and to those who ignore him, bash him, and make fun of him…but yet agree with almost everything he says- screw ‘em.
Are conservatives that stupid to vote for McCain or Hillary becasue they hate Paul so much? Maybe. But there are 70% of the US that want the war to end. A large % that want lower taxes, and a larger % that want secure borders. Why not talk about the issues and policies and those who offer real ideas to make a real difference instead of dumb posts like this that do nothing to advance the cause of liberty?
Not everyone is afraid of Islam. Some of us actually inderstand it and if you actually did understand it..you wouldn’t fear it like a child does the monster in teh closet, you could face it with dignity and know that Paul’s non-interventionist foreign policy is the only way to defeat the immediate threats, and in the long run defeat the larger threat from Islam.
Every other candidate that stood on the satge and all those in the wings who think they are better than Paul will continue to support the Moslem dictators in Egypt, Arabia, and the weak Islamic democracies we are creating. Be smart. Think.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
I hope that you are not saying that the ideas of liberty are in a sad, slow decline. The author of this letter obviously has not heard the message of Dr. Paul. If the author and the rest of America believes that Obama, Hillary, and McCaine will lead this country to prosperity through liberalism, then this country will be in a sad, slow decline.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Mr. Gardner and/or readers,
As news is scarce about Ron Paul and what is actually going on, would someone out there please explain what is most likely going to happen during the next month or two? I know the people in the area I live in that supported Ron Paul are still supporting Ron Paul and it seems like more signs and bumper stickers are showing up everywhere.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
You are such a loser. This was a great day for the good doc!
February 7th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
mistermr,
I think what will happen is that the GOP will convince Huckleberry to drop out soon. They will cancel all future GOP debates to silence him since the only ones remaioning to debate him are Keys and Paul. They already elimiated Keys without much protest and they will ignore ours regarding Paul. The media will not mention his name, and they will continue to marginalize him if they must mention his name.
Hillary is the annointed one by the “Dark Lord” or whatever Bilderburger type controller you want to name it. I believe the GOP has been purposely fractured for Hillary. No matter who gets in among the ‘front runners’ they will continue the multinational corportism that has been growing for the past 60 years. He is brave enough to stand up to the lobbyists, military complex, medical complex, insurance complex and every other money.power broker that is running our country.
More will listen. Keep talking about him. The general election in November is open to all eligable voters unlike the primaries. When given the choice between the welfare statist no-border Hillary, and the pro-war no-border McCain…even the morons like Glenn Beck might vote for Paul. Even if they don’t many other brave patriots will.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
FuckOFF………how do you like them apples!
February 7th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
So all of us Ron Paul supporters are just blinded and pathetic, because we will continue to fight for freedom when all looks lost? Seems to me, that there was another battle that looked hopeless back in the winter of 1777-1778 at Valley Forge. I am sure that Washington look pretty pathetic soldiering on in spite of the starvation, and loss of life. I am sure his supporters(soldiers) also were pretty pathetic. Some of them even felt like giving up I’m sure, and yet history records this:
“A week before Christmas ’77 Washington’s army took up winter quarters at Valley Forge on the west side of the Schuylkill. Although the General’s choice of location was sharply criticized, the site he had selected was central and easily defended. Then came a cruel race with time to get huts erected before the soldiers, barefoot and half naked, froze to death. Hundreds of horses did in fact starve to death, and for the army starvation was a mortal danger. “No meat, no meat!” was the constant wail. Improvements came about after Nathanael Greene assumed the duties of Quartermaster General on March 23rd.
Yet, despite the ever-present fear of mutiny, no real dissaffection occurred. As Hessian Major Baurmeister conceded, the army was kept from disintegrating by the “spirit of liberty.” Men and officers accepted their tragic plight with a sense of humor and extraordinary forbearance, but it was an ordeal that no army could be expected to undergo for long. Nathanael Greene wrote to General Washington, “God grant we may never be brought to such a wretched condition again.”
– The Spirit of ‘Seventy Six”
Was Washington “screwing with the emotions of a lot of people who” believed in him? NO! Washington was fighting to win the war so that liberty could prevail! Those men sacrificed their lives, their blood and their sacred honor so that we could have the blessing of liberty! GOD BLESS men like Ron Paul who still believe that liberty is something worth fighting for!!! Shame on the American citizens who would give up the liberty that was died for because a few evil men with box cutters killed some American citizens!!! God help us if what we have become is a nation of gutless tories!!! As for me, and my household we will stand shoulder to shoulder with the only man in Washington willing to stand us and change America! What you must understand is that Ron Paul supporters are not in this because we believe in Ron Paul the man. Ron Paul supporters are in this because we believe in what founded our nation, LIBERTY! We will live to our dying breath in the hope of preserving our liberty and glorifying rather than trodding underfoot the blood of those who died so that we could enjoy freedom! For SHAME!!!
February 7th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
hahahahaha, nice donation drive!
February 7th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Forgetting what they say they will do, would someone tell me what difference it will make in the real world actions of our next President, if Hillary or Obama are elected?….Or if McCain or Huckabee are elected? Then please tell me what it matters, if Obama or McCain are elected. What will they actually do differently?
I sincerely do not know. I know what they say. I just do not believe they will act differently. They are all hypocrites in my opinion, who could not tell the truth if our lives depended on it! If any of the top 4 are elected, then we will stay in Iraq and Afghanistan, we will go broke with deficit spending, inflation is going to go through the roof, and the Patriot Act will NOT be repealed. So what difference does it really make if any of the top 4 are elected?
Why is it so hard for people to see why Ron Paul supporters will not give up?
We simply have no other rational choice. It is all really quite simple if you look at it logically.
Go Ron Paul and his message, for now and forever!
February 7th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Hey Justin,
Weren’t you the one claiming way back at the end of October 2007 that Ron Paul (who had only raised $3 million) wouldn’t even hit $7 million for the 4th quarter, much less the totally audacious $12 million that he claimed was his goal?
How’d that prediction work out for you? (here’s a clue: he raised $20 million.) Your track records on political predictions stink. You’re probably one of those guys who said that Ron Paul would be lucky to get even one delegate. (he’s got 42) and he probably won Louisianna (putting the lie to those who said he’d never even win a state.)
Your problem is that you think the people who voted for Romney actually like Romney or approve of Romney’s positions, when in fact, they were voting *against* McCain and Huckabee (i.e. liberal RINOs )
Take a look at the CPAC videos and tell me Dr. Paul didn’t shine.
Conservatives have only one horse in this race now. The one that has two first names – RON PAUL.
Over? This race hasn’t even begun yet. Six months ago Ron Paul wasn’t even being included in telephone polls, and Fred Thompson was entering the race to much acclaim – the real conservative they said. Six weeks ago Giuliani was an unstoppable juggernaut well ahead of even Romney. Six days ago Romney was way ahead in the delegate race.
I have no idea what will happen in the next six days, much less the next six weeks or months.
And neither does anyone else.
So stop pretending to be clairvoyant.
Ron Paul isn’t going to run 3rd party just so you can beat your chest and blame Libertarians for the election of Hillary. Ron Paul is going all the way to St. Paul. These primaries and caucii are mere beauty contests. Half the delegates supposedly pledged to McCain and Huckabee (and Paul for that matter) are free to vote for whomever they want.
I can’t have been the only Ron Paul supporter to think about going to another candidate in my state and volunteering to be on their slate. }:>
The isn’t the beginning of the end, it’s just barely the end of the beginning.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Two words: convention speech.
With delegates, Paul has a shot of giving one. It’ll be a great last gasp for him to get his message of freedom, constitutionalism, sound money and non-intervention out to a national audience. If he goes 3rd party now, he wont get that platform.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Mistermr,
Only G-d knows what will happen over the next month. And given the current strange twist of events, I can only assume that whatever does happen next will surprise and amaze us.
Who could have thought that Giuliani would lose Florida?
Who could have thought that Thompson would lose South Carolina?
Who could have thought that Romney would drop out?
Who could have thought that a half-articulated scream would ruin Dean’s chances?
Read up on the Black Swan hypothesis. Past history is no guide to future events.
I can tell you what I *hope* will happen.
I hope Huckabee drops out before the next debate(s)
I hope McCain has a “Dean Scream” moment and is laughed off the stage.
I hope Dr. Paul gets a resounding first place win in TX.
I hope Ron Paul is the last man standing by March 1st and can start bringing all the former competitors together under the “freedom” banner and has six full months to wage rhetorical war against the liberals in the Democrat party, just as he has vanquished every other conservative candidate in the GOP party.
The only conservative left in either party is Ron Paul. The way Rush and Sean, and Glenn have beaten up on McCain and Huckabee, one would think that they’d have no choice but to support Paul. They might not say it, but their listeners are sure thinking it.
But that is only what I hope will happen. I have no effing idea what will happen, any more that Justin does.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
RON PAUL IS OUR BEST HOPE
TO REGAIN OUR LOST LIBERTIES
AND RESTORE THE REPUBLIC
FOR OUR CHILDREN.
LET US NOT FAIL THEM!
February 7th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
You hold the contemporary view of presidential politics and I would not be able to argue with you if I had not been tracking this guy for 10 years. He is an anomoly who cannot be compared to other candidates in the recent past or present.
In the standard formula, a politicians primary goal is to be re-elected, his isn’t. Anyone who continually votes against pork for his district has a political death wish, but he keeps getting re-elected by increasing margins. His constituents may not agree with him, but they trust him and his consistency. They know what they are going to get.
Most candidates who run for president are to some extent ego driven, he isn’t and shows by his lack of fear when it comes to laying it out there and letting the people decide. At a time when the country was whipped up in a patriotic fervor and hungry for war, the guy stood up and said no! He defies contemporary political dogma and in some ways is his own worst enemy because he is not a politician, he is a congressman and servant of the Constitution. He is not a political creature as the other 534 are, he is simply too genuine and too principled to pull it off. Christ the guy can’t even attack properly. I think if he tried to sling mud, his head would explode!
And herien lies the problem. In an age when we have come to expect a certain level of distortion, pandering, mud-slinging, demagoging and showmanship in presidential politics, Paul is simply too good to be true. After decades of the dog and pony show, people simply don’t know how to react to a real-deal straight shooter and a creature of principle.
Paul is not hanging on because of vanity. It was vanity that drove Romney and Guiliani from the race. As relatively successful politicians who are used to being winners, their egos couldn’t handle going the long haul and coming up short. Especially to the likes of f-ing McCain. Not to mention the future political damage they may suffer.
Paul hangs on because of principle and loyalty. He told his nobody supporters who have broken their piggy banks to support him and driven hundreds of miles and volunteered their time to campaign for him that as long as they continue to do so, he will continue to run. You have to remember that he never told us the supporters, how to campaign or when to give, he let us do it on our own which has probably done as much harm as good. He doesn’t care about his future or reputation, because his integrity won’t let him. When we stop, so will he.
Were vanity his motivation, he’d have dropped out after New Hampshire. But again it isn’t. It’s about his committment to liberty, the need to reclaim the Republican party and the need to remind the Republican party where it came from. And as I said, a feeling of obligation to the hundreds of thousands of supporters who were willing to stick their political necks out for him.
You may think I am one of the legions who are being fooled by Paul. I am not. I have no illusions about his chances of winning, nor did I from the get-go. But I have seen a decade of sincerity, integrity, common sense, principle and above all consistency to these ideals. I sometimes can’t believe myself that this guy has the stones to do and say some of the things that he does in congress. I’ve met the guy in his congressional office about the time he was starting his exploratory committee. His genuine warmth, integrity and willingness to talk one on one to some unannounced schmuck off the street who was not a constituent was unnerving. I felt like a cat having its fur stroked the wrong way, but in a good way if that’s possible. I kept waiting for my bullshit detector to go off and it wouldn’t. After five minutes it was more like I was shooting the shit with my wife’s grandfather than a federal politician.
It’s about trust. I trust him more than I would the founders because he has the record to back it up. And he trusts us or he wouldn’t eat the brownies and cookies we give him which is crazy as far as I am concerned. But it speaks to Paul’s character and nature. He is one of us, not one of them and has made a career out of proving it.
February 8th, 2008 at 4:14 am
READ-RESEARCH=REVEAL the truth of DR.RON PAUL
The only logical choice FOR AMERICA
February 8th, 2008 at 7:40 am
An independent bid, Justin? F-you ! This is our party, and we want it back. Why settle for Marx one side or Marx-lite on the other? Ron Paul Republicans will start in offices on the local level. Not going away.
February 8th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Yes, Justin. The majority of Ron Paul supporters are utterly insane as you can see yet again from most of the posts supporting him. Like their hero, they have no grasp of economics or even the 21st Century versus the 18th. Consider that the level of federalism they desire would have made the interstate highway system unthinkable and that it has in fact served as an amazing piece of infrastructure that has boosted our economy. People like Gene actually expect to make political headway by condemning everyone who doesn’t buy into their beliefs as Marxists. Many of them agree with Rob that they and only they understand what liberty is and that Ron Paul supports it even as Paul admits that he has no problems with the restriction of liberty in the name of fundamentalist Christianity so long as it’s at the state level. Some actually think that there might be a brokered convention. Why would anyone think that given the current delegate count? Then there are people like DenisL, who paints with such a broad brush that he is incapable of seeing any differences between other candidates. Reminds me of the fools like Nader who thought there was no difference between Bush and Gore and we can see where that got us.
February 8th, 2008 at 11:06 am
A vanity campaign?!?!?!? HAHAHAHAA
This has, is, and always will be about changing the course of America. Either with Dr. Paul at the helm or without. Dr Paul has been saying the same things need to change for the last 30 years. Finally he has a place to shout it from where more than just the people who watch C-Span have an opportunity to hear him. There are still a LOT of people out here in the real world who have never heard of him, and don’t even know who the heck he is. I wonder if that had anything to do with a media blackout? Virtually all of those people have never been introduced to his ideas, they should be. Whether or not he is going to win his bid for the Presidency at this point is unimportant, thought I personally am starting to regain some hope (crazily enough). The net result of this is hopefully to build a powerful coalition of people who believe in his message of geting gov’t out of our lives
February 8th, 2008 at 11:21 am
I’m with DD, OH, though I’ve given far less money and wouldn’t elect Alan Keyes for dog catcher.
February 8th, 2008 at 11:29 am
“Reminds me of the fools like Nader who thought there was no difference between Bush and Gore and we can see where that got us.”
I voted for Nader in 2000 and Peroutka in 2004 to protest the corrupt two-party system. Looking back on 8 years of Bush and the evil he and his puppet masters have wrought, I now regret my 2004 vote for certain, and possibly my 2000 vote. If 2008 comes down to Hillary vs. McCain, though, I really can’t see a difference worth voting for/against. With Obama vs. McCain, I might be able to hold my nose and vote for Obamalamadingdong. He can’t be as bad as McInsane or Her.
February 8th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Ron Paul is now getting Romney supporters, Donkle. CPAC (Conservative Political Action Conference) is THE annual event attended by the leading conservatives in the US. At CPAC 2008, Senator Juan McWar was booed. At CPAC 2008, Dr. Ron Paul was continuously cheered. You decide.
Introduction of Dr Ron Paul at CPAC by Congressman Bob Barr:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l8AIuJJRZo
Dr Ron Paul at CPAC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oaD9oM4xQo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWlUc8ip5hc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGaZsAeMKFo
February 8th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
I for one hope Paul comes from behind and shoves a big ass plate full of crow into your mouth. My vote goes to Dr. Paul in the general election regardless. I will not vote for McCain or Huckabee and definitely not for any of the Dumbocrats.
February 8th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Hope all you want, Brian. It just shows how out of touch with reality Ron Paul and his supporters are.
February 8th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Jim – I know that Paul probably won’t win the nomination, but you have to realize what’s at stake here. The Republican Party has totally took a dump on conservatives and libertarians – do you really think Paul supporters and I are going to hold our noses and vote for McCain or Huckabee so the quasi-socialist status quo will continue? If not now, when? You guys bash us, call us “kooks” or troofers and then expect our votes in the general? What kind of sick, twisted individuals are you people? Jigsaw from the “Saw” movies?
That’s fine if Paul is not nominated. Honestly, I don’t care and knew that hi chances were slim to begin with. What he has done though, is brought some serious issues into the spotlight. People are questioning the legitimacy of the Federal Reserve. THE FEDERAL RESERVE! There are over 500,000 YouTube views for that “Ron Paul OWNZED the Federal Reserve” clip. He has cast a street lamp on the GOP and the sycophants (FreeRepublic, Redstate, Rush, Hannity, Coulter) who cheer lead them at every turn and drag out the Hillary boogewoman if we don’t vote for the R. You can call us all the names you want, but my vote goes to Dr. Paul and I don’t care if it causes Hillary to be nominated.
February 9th, 2008 at 11:15 am
It’s over, Paulistas. Even Paul knows it. And as for his message and the number of YouTube views he had…so what? 500,000. Unique viewers? Unlikely. All voting Americans who actually believed what he was saying as opposed to some who were thinking “What is this guy on?”? Also unlikely. The Paul campaign’s success shows the complete ignorance of part of the American public as much as anything else.
February 9th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Don’t blame me!
FJH
http://brushfires2008.com/2008/02/05/dont-blame-me-i-voted-for-ron-paul-bumper-sticker/
February 9th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
But why shouldn’t I blame those who don’t truly study the issues and vote for those who do the same? Those so blinded by bizarre ideologies that they refuse to work for any real change contribute nothing. Ron Paul isn’t just Dr. No, he’s Dr. Nothing, the congressman and candidate who might as well not be there.
February 9th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Jim,
“The Paul campaign’s success shows the complete ignorance of part of the American public as much as anything else.”
“the congressman and candidate who might as well not be there.”
But he is and I am greatfull. I do not understand the gleefull exoiriation of his fate from the likes of you, or the obvious oversight by most all media. If he is so insignificant to you why are you dancing on his grave? Would you punch a Boy Scout in the face? Talking about the weird Mormom religion is taboo; but a strict, reasoned understanding and public record of our Constitution is mocked not only socialy encouraged but media driven. Jerk.
Talking about the dangerous Mohammedean religion is taboo unless qualified to ‘radicals’. Give money ( I see this as jiyza tribute) to those Moslem governments that help us protect us from ourselves. Jac**ss.
Not seeing or caring what the left hand was doing we go with the right hand in Iraq to fight the ‘radicals’ in an offesive war in the name of terrorism and security of our national interests- which is oil- which is exploited by those in business in our country as well as others. I am sure there is nothing connected there to be worried about, but there sure was with Saddam and Al-qaeda to start a war. We have gangs in LA, Chicago, NY… that are violent yet we do not drop bombs on our cities. Hypocrite.
The only way you are not a hypocrite is if you think we should fight a war and have our soldiers die for energy from the middle east. If you believe the oil in Iraq at nearly $100 bbl is worth the cost in life and property just so we can take the fight to this terrible ‘radical’ enemy then I apologize. That just means you are stupid or ignorant.
The more you post the more I will know.
So we disagree apparently on foreign policy since all the ‘frontrunners’ on both sides are no where near Paul in policy. Getting out of Iraq is only part of it.
Social issues, taxes, and common sense. Whom do you support and why? Do you like the preacher who would like to change the Constitution to be more like Scripture and build a highway along the east coast and west coast to make jobs and lessen time spent in traffic, and/or the respected POW Senator that honestly does not intend to secure the border and will let run our enonomy the private bank called the Fed?
I will assume you don’t like the welfare, nanny-state (Baracillary supports supporting Moslem dictators too, continue the WOD, and globalization) the Dems offer so let’s stick with the RINO unless you say otherwise. Who are you rootin’ for, Jim/Justin? Why? What beacon of light do you see? Who will fight the ‘radicals’ for you and make America strong? I’d bet you $1 you can’t argue the yellow brick road to emerald city with any of those candidates, but it’s not worth as much anymore so I am just whislin past the graveyard.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
First, you don’t even know that Obama opposes the war.
I’m not a libertarian and never will be. You see, you’re a moron. You think you understand the Constitution and its writers and you know nothing about the history they knew or their perspectives on it. You’re not bright enough to figure out that this isn’t the 18th or 19th century and that things have changed so radically that what worked then doesn’t work now. You think that Ron Paul knows economics when in fact he has never studied the subject except to be introduced to the fruitcake school of thought that is the “Austrian School” and decide that he liked it and that he didn’t need any exposure to any other thoughts on the subject. Since Paul thinks it you undoubtedly thing the gold standard is the answer to our prayers without a clue as to the inherent weaknesses in it and how those weaknesses compare to our current system.
You moan about the preacher that I despise yet you apparently don’t know that Ron Paul has absolutely no problem with everything Huckabee wants to do in the name of religion as long as it’s done at the state level instead of the federal government.
You offer up BS sound bites like opposing welfare and the nanny state. Is any welfare too much welfare? What about unemployment insurance? What about the disabled? Have you bothered to investigate enough to know that the private charities that Ron Paul says we can count on once those evil government programs are gone know that they don’t have enough resources now much less if you eliminated every government aid program? Of course you haven’t.
Ron Paul and his followers are just one more example of wanting simple, easy answers to complex questions. It’s also crap.
February 9th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
I know Obama supports no real change in foreign policy, but now know where you lean. Do you think he won’t continue to send our taxes to Egypt and Pakistan like all past Administrations along with the billions he is promising of additional funds for the BS nanny-state you desire. You don’t answer these foreign policy questions like your new hero which still doesn’t expose your ignorance or stupidity. Keep talking I’ll get it soon.
Why not educate yourself about his views on religion before speaking? That puts you in the stupid category since you don’t understand the First Amendment. Well, you could still be ignorant. I don’t want to jump the gun on you there. Huckabee is clearly stupid.
What about unemployment insurance? What if people live in flood plains or where earthquakes and tornados strike, hail stoms, forrest fires, hurricanes….there are a untold number of ways to fail and need help and none of them are the federal govenments businees in making some special coverage to bail out peoples choices.
My brother is 100% disabled after an industrial accident. Please say a prayer for him but I do not want the government to tax your income and rob you of what is yours to help him. I am sure you have enough of your own trials. If his insurance company lived up to its written obligations, and congress was not in teh businees of deciding what treatment his HMO was limited to early on the extent of his braindamage might be much less than it is which is degenerative. The 3rd degree burns from steam over 40% of his body have healed. Say a prayer for my two nephews in Iraq right now fighting for your $3/gal gas and keeping the monster in the closet.
Have you botherd to think if you had 30% more of your paycheck you might give more directly to those cause you champion or personal needs of your own rather than force it from others? The state you live in might ask for more becasue you stopped sending it to DC to send back to you with numerious restrictions, so your schools and roads might be better than they are. No, of course you haven’t. That would mean you must rely on yourself and your neighbor and that is too scary for you.
You obviously fear your neighbor more than you trust yourself. Why do you fear me? I am your neighbor. If you need help, ask, don’t force it from me. I will help if I can if the need is just.
You trust the goverment to manage the the insurance and medical companies rather then exclude the middleman and hold them accountable yourself. My brothe ris not fighting his insurance company, he is fighting the govenment mandated restriction placed on them, lobbied by them. Why do you not see that error?
You likely want a raise in the minimum wage because no one should be poor, but fail to realize the costs go up becasue the wages go up and other than now higher paying fast food jobs and selling Chinese goods in Wal-marl our real jobs will go overseas or to the illegal immigrants at lower actual cost but billed at the federal mandated wages he will make legal becasue he is compassionate…like you pretend to be.
How compassionate is taking my money by force to perform abortions, or do research on a endangered mouse in AZ? What good is the FDA and what would be different if the milk you bought was not as advertised?
Nothing is simple about this which is why I am giving you still, the benefit of the doubt. Only when you know the truth and then deny it do you become stupid and no longer ignorant.
And to your continued old century modernity conflict you seem to think so important. There is something about a sound tradition and ideological foundation that is not to be ignored, or done so at our peril. The Created gift of our personal liberty and sovereign right of our nationality is not the conflct or obstacle you seem to think it is. When trouble strikes and disater comes it is only by that sense and responsibility of the individual to overcome it, not by looking to some power in Washington DC. Gold was steady for nearly 500 years and was the reason we based the monetary ssystem on it. For that stability. The problem is not with gold. The problem is with its cost manipulation. You might think it antiquated, but I will sell you my loaf of bread for a gold coin rather than an IOU. The dollar used to be backed by it and it ment something. Now what backs it?
You are rapidly moving into the stupid category. Be carefull.
February 10th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Congress mandates nothing about the treatments an HMO offers. That’s utter BS. I do know Paul’s views on religion better than you do, apparently. What I said is the complete truth. Ron Paul’s own article on his opinion on Lawrence v. Texas stated explicitly that in his opinion the states have the right to pass laws to govern morality. He did not set a limit on that ability. Why don’t YOU do the research on your hero. Your comments on gold just prove my point that you know nothing about the realities of what the gold standard is or why it was abandoned not only by us but by every country. Your ignorance knows no bounds, Andy.
February 10th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Jim,
I can deal with ignorance pretty well, but not stupidity. Whoever is beating you with the stick please tell them to stop. It is embarrassing. Like most liberals today you say nothing substansive to be called truth and you refuse to answer even one of my questions. This symbol “?” means a answer is requested unless the statement was rhetorical. Pick anyone you want but please answer one at least.
The Lawrence case just shows how much you approve of activist federal judges and how little you understand the Constitution. Oops, I forget…you have moved fully into the stupid camp with Huckleberry so ignorance is no longer an excuse. My wife is an RN and former Director of Surgery for a local hospital and other than my own personal knowledge with my brother she says you are one of the many ill-informed that will ruin our health care with the Universal healthcare promoted by the stupid. (see Obama, Hillary and even a few democon RINO).
I will summarize since I won’t respond to you anymore and leave you with one last opportunity to get informed on your own.
You think the Federal governemnt has the responsibility and duty to allow gay sex, allow federally funded abortion on demand, allow criminal aliens the right to assemble and protest our government, outlaw drugs, be influenced by business lobbists, and create money out of thin air regardless of what the individual citizens and states might feel about it. In an effort to be fair to a few you are unfair to many. The contraddiction is not lost on me but is oblivious to you. Feel good policy is dangerous and unhealthy for a nation.
I won’t ask you anymore questions since you are unable to answer even one, so I will give you statements and if you are a peson of integrity you will understand…but I have no more doubt about you as an individual.
The ‘People’ in the preamble of our Constitution is not all inclusive for everyone on the planet but is limited to legal citizens/residents of the United States. Grasping that concept will go a long way in your ideological rehabilitation.
The 1st Amendment does not permit millions of criminal illegal foreign nationals the right to assemble and protest our government like they have in the recent past. The 1st Amendment does not permit Congress from telling a local courthouse or school it cannot display religious symbols or have prayer even if they receive federal funds. (…or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…)
Congress does not have the authority to limit my 2nd Amendment rights.
The 4th Amendment does not apply to non-US citizens but only to the US authority executing any searches and is extended only by proxy in that regard because of the lawfull limitations put on the US citizen. This is important in understanding how offensive the Patriot Act really is, but you have shown a remarkable ability to not understand…which is why you are keeping company with H-berry in Camp Stupid.
The 14th Amendment does not permit birthright citizenship for criminal illegal aliens, but was intended to make citizens those human beings that were brought here as slaves It also does not protect gay sex..or any sex…in the privacy of the home. It just isn’t there. You think the states don’t have the authority to legistlate morality but the federal goivernment does? (rhetorical) Stealing and murder are moral codes, and so is cheating at business and polluting your neighbors property. I woul dtell you to understand why states have jurisdiction in these cases which makes the other moral issue a state, not federal issue..but since you are on the bench with H-berry…I need not bother.
The 16th Amendment was not fully or legally ratified and is in conflict with Article 1, Section 9, Clause 4. Yea, I know your tired response already.
Whatever part you don’t like about Article 1, Section 10 regarding gold and silver is a personal opinion. Forgive me that I don’t take your word on why a fiat money system run by a private bank is better than sound money as prescribed by the Constitution.
I have answered every one of your illogical statements and you have answered none of my pertanent ones. Debating you is like debating Moslems- logic and reason do not sink in. For Moslems it is becasue their false prophet was a criminal idiot influenced by a demon so at least I know why they say and do what they do. For people like you I can only associate an irrational fear and a twisted sense of social justice to your ideology as if Robin Hood must be made a saint to justify a forced redistribution of wealth that can never be just or equal no matter the intent.
You are intellectually dishonest. Just say you don’t agree with the Constitution and be done with it. Move to the EU and leave my county and Constituion alone.