21 Responses to “Meanwhile, In Palestine…”

1. daveinboca Says:
   June 15th, 2007 at 1:23 pm

   Of course, the BDS-afflicted psychopathic left must blame anyone and everyone except Hamas and the phony Arab policies that produced just one more catastrophe in the Levant.

   Anyone who watched the BBC last night saw Hamas gunmen emptying their AK-47s and other automatic weapons into the air without a thought in their monkey brains about where the bullets would come down. The primitive savagery of the Arabs can’t think beyond their testoserone to the fact that 2 million lost souls live in the garbage dump that is Gaza, and some will get hit by said bullets. Happens all the time, but the BBC and Guardian never report where the bullets come down.

   And a brain-dead bimbo Arab reporter in Beirut called the assassination of a Sunni judge “daring� as though killing someone and ten bystanders in an amusement park was an act of bravery. This bi-yotch with a mike then said that the Shi’ites and their allies were “chipping away� at the anti-Syrian majority in Lebanese parliament, as if seven murders in the last two years was some sort of parliamentary tactic.

   I lived in the Middle East for almost a decade, speak and read Arabic, and there is little if anything more to hope from this savage medieval relic of a “civilization� that purports to be founded on a “religion of peace.� My lyin’ eyes just can’t see the peace that blowing up Sunni and Shi’ite places of worship in progressive acts of retaliation fits into the term “civilization.�

   And any female Arab bimbo who describes a car-bomb murder in an amusement park as “daring� should be fired immediately. And “chipping away� is not a term literate people use for political murders.

   These murderers are to blame, and the International Left sees them as allies, and so must finger-point at Bush, Blair, Israel, or even Global Warming before it attacks its terrorist friends on the left. Or violent reactionaries like Hamas, who are the friends of the NYT, WaPo, and other political elites who hate and oppose Bush with the irrational frenzy of true psychotic maniacs.

2. Jimmy the Dhimmi Says:
   June 15th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

   Of course, the BDS-afflicted psychopathic left must blame anyone and everyone except Hamas and the phony Arab policies that produced just one more catastrophe in the Levant.

   This is sometimes called, “Third Worldism,” or as I like to call it, “reactive life-form theroy.” It is the belief that poor, brown skinned people are immune from responsibility of their own actions because they are perpetual children, victims of a colonial past, and too poor to do anything but react to stimuli like, what Tim Blair calls, “terrorist-forming insects.”

   The great Bruce Thornton articulates this attitude better than I can in essays such as this one or this one. To quote him briefly,:

   Indeed, the record of various “expertsâ€Â? in solving social problems is none too encouraging…Worse, though, are the superstitions about human nature and behavior that inform the thinking of these experts. To them, people are mere material things, shaped and moved by the forces of their social, economic, and political environment, passive reactors whose behavior can be improved by tinkering with that environment as though it were a machine.

   .

   Besides Bradley Burston morally equvocating Israeli “hardliners” to Hamas’ barbaric, Jew-hating, bloodthirsty terrorists, He leaves out perhaps the most important reason why there is no Palestine, which I will provide for him here:

   14. Because there are too many Muslims who interpret Chapter 5 and Chapter 9 of the Koran literally.

3. Jeremy Says:
   June 15th, 2007 at 2:31 pm

   “In the meantime, take a look at this column from Bradley Burston about why we’re finding ourselves in the current situation.”

   We find ourselves in the current situation because of bungling, greedy British and American interventionism.

   “Under the Sykes- Peko Accord, struck by the British and French governments in the later stages of WW1, the Arabs under King Feisal were sold out, even by Lawrence of Arabia (a factor that played heavily on him in later life) and their promised homeland of Palestine was never given them.” Instead what happened was Jewish refugees started pouring in from war ravaged Europe and the Zionist looked to establish a Jewish homeland in territory that was not theirs.

   America for its part has used Israel as a Cold War pawn and has done so to great effect. The American oil industry has made countless riches off the geopolitics of the Middle East. Meanwhile, it is the American taxpayer that foots the bill in treasure and in blood to maintain this unlikely peace.

   America sells billions upon billions of dollars of very high tech weaponry to Israel so that it can remain America’s land-based aircraft carrier/nuclear deterrent in the region which multi-national oil companies so desperately depend on for their product.

   It sounds too simplistic to just say this is about greed but it is. The so-called “creation” of Israel in Palestine has been a disaster from the very start. But you would never hear this kind of talk in the U.S. because the U.S. and Israel are so deeply in bed together–each one serving the others greedy intentions. Israel wants to keep a land “promised by their Torah” and America’s oil companies are in positions to steer the Middle East process. I must say! things are going swimmingly so far. I know, I know! we just got to give the surge a chance then everything will be alright.
   ;)

4. SaneInSF Says:
   June 15th, 2007 at 3:04 pm

   Might want to read up on Mr. Abington Jr. before you spread his stinky brain farts all over the web.

   http://bokertov.typepad.com/btb/2006/01/something_smell.html

   From the link:

   “that former US government employees now function as lobbyists for the Palestinian Authority”

   Yeah, like this guy is a credible source.

5. Justin Gardner Says:
   June 15th, 2007 at 3:05 pm

   daveinboca, if you want to keep commenting here, please watch your language. These is nothing but a screed (monkey brains? bimbo?), and it’s not welcome.

   Furthermore, what would you have said if you were a Frenchman and you were over in America during our civil war? All of this needs to be put in context. Brutality is a human condition, not a Muslim condition, but you seem to lazily define it as such since you lived over there. Nobody’s defending terrorists here, but I am questioning our policies that seem to get us absolutely nowhere in this continuous struggle.

   And while the Palestinians have used vile tactics to gain independence, they still have a legtimate argument about how much of their land has been taken away. And holy land at that. Israel was a manufactured stated, and poof, more than half of the land the Palestinians had was gone in one fell swoop.

   In any event, shape up or ship out dave. There’s no room for comments like yours here.

6. Jimmy the Dhimmi Says:
   June 15th, 2007 at 4:39 pm

   Israel was a manufactured state, and poof, more than half of the land the Palestinians had was gone in one fell swoop.

   There never was a Palestinian state to begin with because every Arab nation rejected UN resolution 181 and attacked the Jewish state after it was granted independence. Before Israel, the land was controlled by British, before that, it was occupied by the Turks. Arabs had not been in control of that land for over 1000 years. The Arab state was offered, Jeremy, and is still on the table but Arabs have always rejected the two state solution.

   Almost every state in eastern europe, as well as countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh are “manufactured states” carved out of greater empires around the same time as the creation of Israel, complete with refugees and bloodshed, but no one seems to question the existence of those nations.

   We find ourselves in the current situation because of bungling, greedy British and American interventionism…Israel wants to keep a land “promised by their Torahâ€Â?

   This is Third-Worldism in action. Its always interenting to me how anti-zionists will proclaim that Jews want to stay on that land because of archaine religious beliefs, yet fail to assign the same motivations to Arabs who openly claim it. It is Islamic law that land conquered by Muslims becomes Waqif and belongs to the “Umma” in perpetuity until the Day of Ressurection. But of course Third-world experts like Jeremy know that Palestinians don’t realy mean it, but find comfort in religion as a result of being opressed by greedy Jews.

   One last thing for those who think Jews have no historic connection to the land of Palestine, consider the words of Jeremy’s hero:

   “…the sedentary population of Jerusalem numbers about 15,500 souls, of whom 4,000 are Mussulmans and 8,000 Jews. The Mussulmans, forming about a fourth part of the whole, and consisting of Turks, Arabs and Moors, are, of course, the masters in every respect, as they are in no way affected with the weakness of their Government at Constantinople. Nothing equals the misery and the sufferings of the Jews at Jerusalem, inhabiting the most filthy quarter of the town, called hareth-el-yahoud, the quarter of dirt, between the Zion and the Moriah, where their synagogues are situated, the constant objects of Mussulman oppression and intolerance, insulted by the Greeks, persecuted by the Latins, and living only upon the scanty alms transmitted by their European brethren.”

   -Karl Marx, The New-York Herald Tribune 1854

7. Donklephant » Blog Archive » Is the UN the founder of Hamastan? Says:
   June 15th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

   [...] So anyway, in addition to his kind words, Justin has graciously invited me to join the blogging community here at Donklephant. I am very grateful for this, and I’m happy to be on board with the moderate blogging community here. For my inaugural post, I’d actually like to open it up to the floor and discuss the Hamas takeover in Gaza this week. Justin shared with us some of the arguments playing out right now, but when the dust settles, where does that leave us? Will any of the conventional “solutions” for the conflict, such as a two-state plan, ever be feasible? [...]

8. Jeremy Says:
   June 15th, 2007 at 6:28 pm

   In response to Jimmy the Dhimmi.

   First, let me be clear about something. I don’t hate Jews or believe them as people or group to be inherently greedy or dishonest. People are people as far as I am concerned. I would also like to make clear that I am not a supporter of any type of fundementalism, whether that be Islamic fundementalism or Jewish fundementalism. It’s obvious both of these types of fundementalism exist and it is even more obvious that they are the reason these two culturally different and similar groups find themselves at an impasse.

   “There never was a Palestinian state to begin with because every Arab nation rejected UN resolution 181 and attacked the Jewish state after it was granted independence. Before Israel, the land was controlled by British, before that, it was occupied by the Turks. Arabs had not been in control of that land for over 1000 years. The Arab state was offered, Jeremy, and is still on the table but Arabs have always rejected the two state solution.”

   Addressing the above comment, you say there was no Palestinian state. I completely disagree with this assertion. Palestinians have occupied the land that is the modern state of Israel for millennia, just becuase the Palestinians rejected the UN’s resolution 181 in 1947 really doesn’t justify the point you’re trying to make. So the Palestinians didn’t care what a world body organization (the U.N.,Its chief donors being western powers) had proclaimed, to them this organization was runned by entities which had no vested interest in them, their culture or the land they had occupied for millennia.

   You seem to conveniently brush over the fact that (as you put it) the “offered” lands was never really an offer, it was a promise by the allied powers, chiefly Great Britain that for their help in toppling the Turks during WW1 they would be given back the land that the Turks had taken from them (i.e. nomadic Arabian tribes). This, needless to say did not happen. Instead, a significant population of Jews from war torn Europe post WW2 put in action a decades long movement (Zionism) stating that a Sovereign Jewish state should be made and the most natural place should be the land which, as they made justification was the “promised lands” of what was then Palestine under Turkish rule.

   An unfortunate detail ommitted about all of this “promised land” talk and the making of a Zionist state was the fact that this land was already occupied by a multi-thousand year old culture and people. Also conveniently unmentioned is that all of these supposedly “Jewish” people were in fact Europeans. Jewish people in the strictest defition were not only Jewish but they were German, Polish, Russian, Slavs, Romanian, Austrian and the list goes on and on. Now, you are telling me that after the Jews travelled far off into Europe and lived their lives there as Europeans for hundreds upon hundreds of years–that somehow, because of the reality of the geo-political-social turmoil Jews (i.e. European Jews) found themselves in that somehow they can miraculously delcare themselves the rightful owners of a land that they nor their fathers, fathers fathers father knew to be their own? All of this based on a U.N. resolution, a U.N. I might argue runned and controlled by the most powerful Western nations, those same nations (i.e. Britain, America and France) that decided it was conveinent to create a “permanent home” for the Jews, becuase as it would seem they were not having much luck in Europe.

   To me, this sounds like the master selling the salve. Who gave the master right to the slave? That is to say, Britain, America, France, the U.N. had no right to parcel-up, partition or legitimate any piece of Palestine, especially when! especially! when they had promised this land to the Arabs for fighting on their side in WW1. And I might add, they kept their word. I cannot say as much for us.

9. SaneinSF Says:
   June 15th, 2007 at 7:39 pm

   Maybe the British should have just kept it.

   “I cannot say as much for us.”

   Who’s us? If you want to be self-hating, that’s your problem. Keep your razor blades to yourself.

   To keep trying to address past perceived injustices is no excuse to be killing civilians.

   Lands have changed hands over the thousands of years. And lands will continue to change hands. No one “deserves” anything.

10. Jimmy the Dhimmi Says:
    June 15th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    Palestinians have occupied the land that is the modern state of Israel for millennia, just becuase the Palestinians rejected the UN’s resolution 181 in 1947 really doesn’t justify the point you’re trying to make.

    My point is justified. Despite the fact that Jews had an unbroken presence in Israel for 2000 years, and Balfour established a homeland for Jews under British oversight, there was no Jewish state until 1948. There could have been an Arab state, but it was rejected by surrounding Arab states (including the Emirate of TransJordan – now called “Palestinian Territories”).

    You completely ignore the fact that the Ottomans occupied that territory, not Arabs, for over 1000 years. If you say Arabs deserved a state because they have a unique culture and historical presence on that land, fine. But so do the Jews. That is what the Balfour declaration, and later resolution 181 provided. In fact, the partition destined for the Arab state was much more developed than that of the Jewish state.

    Also conveniently unmentioned is that all of these supposedly “Jewish� people were in fact Europeans.

    This is simply untrue. Not only was there a sedentary population of Jews which outnumbered Arabs in Jerusalem, Sinai, and the coastal regions which can be documented as far back as the 18th century, but Israel also absorbed nearly 600,000 Jewish refugees exiled from Arab lands after the declaration of independence. In fact, there were more Jewish refugees patriated from Arab lands than there were Arab refugees evacuated from Israel during both the 1947 and 1967 wars combined.

    Consider that nearly all of the 880,000 Jews were kicked out of Arab lands after 1948. Less than 7000 remain today. Do you believe all of those Jewish refugees and their decendants have a “right of return” to Arab countries?

    Yes the British promised an Arab state in Palestine and the Turks agreed. Unfortunately, the Arabs, represented by the magistrate of Transjordan with allies in Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Egypt did not agree. You are a shining example of Third-worldism because you refuse to hold into account people you percieve to be of a weaker economic class. The British and Americans are somehow responsible for a decision the Arabs refused to make. Apparently you can lead a horse to water but you can’t force him to drink, unless you are a white person or a Jew, in which case you are responsible if the horse dies of thirst.

11. Jeremy Says:
    June 15th, 2007 at 8:51 pm

    “Maybe the British should have just kept it.”

    Spoken like a true imperialist.

    “Who’s us? If you want to be self-hating, that’s your problem. Keep your razor blades to yourself.”

    If self-hating is keeping and abiding by ones word, then I suppose I am one of those. Or is it that you can’t trust a damn thing the U.S. or any European power says? I suspect the latter is spot on.

    “To keep trying to address past perceived injustices is no excuse to be killing civilians.”

    Oh really, just who is doing most of the killing anyway? Last I heard the Jews are killing disproportionately more Palestinians than the Palestinians are killing Jews. Jews have killed rock throwing, yes that’s right, [rock throwing] kids younger than 76 years old. Some of them get killed for just being Palestinian. The idea that Palestinians are engaged in a solitary campaign to seek out and kill only Jewish civilians is one-sided and inaccurate at best. Jews bulldoze family homes and regularly engage in non-combatant targeting of Palestinian children, this has been documented countless times by international peace agencies.

    “Lands have changed hands over the thousands of years. And lands will continue to change hands. No one “deservesâ€Â? anything.”

    Change hands, quaint little euphemism there. Perhaps the term would be more aptly described as ‘Might makes right!’.

    I seem to remember president Reagan saying: “TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!”, I guess this doesn’t apply to Israel’s much larger wall building project. It must be okay to build apartheid walls as long as it is one of our allies constructing it. Perhaps Putin should turn the tables and proclaim “TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!” I don’t see that garnering as much fanfare though.

    In the U.S. anything that Israel does is often coached in terms of justified self defense and likewise anything the Palestinians do is described in terms unjustified terrorism, when in reality the situation is far more complicated than that. Murder begets murder. Hatered begets more hatered. Perhaps there is no nice solution to this problem, maybe we as the world’s leading power should try to earnestly address this regions problems instead of selling yet another cache of weapons we know is likely to only further an already tragic situation.

12. Jim S Says:
    June 15th, 2007 at 9:03 pm

    Jeremy,

    There is nothing accurate in this statement.

    An unfortunate detail ommitted about all of this “promised land� talk and the making of a Zionist state was the fact that this land was already occupied by a multi-thousand year old culture and people. Also conveniently unmentioned is that all of these supposedly “Jewish� people were in fact Europeans. Jewish people in the strictest defition were not only Jewish but they were German, Polish, Russian, Slavs, Romanian, Austrian and the list goes on and on. Now, you are telling me that after the Jews travelled far off into Europe and lived their lives there as Europeans for hundreds upon hundreds of years–that somehow, because of the reality of the geo-political-social turmoil Jews (i.e. European Jews) found themselves in that somehow they can miraculously delcare themselves the rightful owners of a land that they nor their fathers, fathers fathers father knew to be their own?

    The Muslim religion isn’t thousands of years old. It is younger than Christianity by over 500 years. If you go back thousands of years you would in fact have to include the time when the original Israel existed as well as the time when Rome ruled the region. All Jews did not leave the Middle East because of the conquest of Israel. The diaspora was not, after all, purely voluntary. Where do you get your misinformation?

13. Jeremy Says:
    June 15th, 2007 at 9:53 pm

    I made no mention of Palestinian religion. I am all too aware that not all Arabs are Muslims and not all Muslims are Arabs. You seem to be fishing for a point of contention.

    Regarding the statement that Palestinians have lived in Palestine for thousands of years, there is nothing inaccurate about this statement at all. At one point there was little that separate what we now call Palestinians from the Jews. Ethnically and culturally they at one time were the same people. The Jews of today are largely of European descent or Ashkenazic Jews and have little or nothing in common with people that continued to exist in the modern state of Palestine.

    As far as all the Jews not leaving after the conquest of the ancient Kingdom of Judah that is true, but the state of Judah ceased to exist and any Jews that remained, remained as a minority and an ever assimilated minority at that. Trying to say that a large contingent of Jews stayed behind after the conquest by Rome and maintained some claim on the land in the name of Judaism is a disingenuous argument. 99.9% percent of all Jews that now reside in the state of modern day Israel are of European/Western descent or immigrated from other parts of the Middle East, not from the modern region we now call Israel. No spin you try to put on it will change that fact.

14. Jimmy the Dhimmi Says:
    June 15th, 2007 at 10:29 pm

    Regarding the statement that Palestinians have lived in Palestine for thousands of years, there is nothing inaccurate about this statement at all.

    There were no Arabs anywhere in Palestine (other than perhaps the occasional nomadic caravan drivers or merchant exporters) until the 2nd caliph Omar ibn Khattib, Mohammad’s most trusted apprentice, conquered the citidel of Jerusalem in the name of Allah in 638 A.D. following a 4 month siege.

15. Jeremy Says:
    June 15th, 2007 at 11:01 pm

    Alright then, for 1369 years then. The fact is this land lie in an important geographical area. People of all three monotheistic religions have claims to it. In truth it belongs to none of them. They all share the need for a place to live and they both wish to have it all to themselves.
    There are three options as I see it.

    Both can compromise and find a way to live side-by-side in peace.

    One can attempt to eradicate the other, expel thee other and have sole control of the land, albeit this is unlikely as it would just create further future conflicts.

    [OR]

    There can be no compromise, there can be no peace, there can no sole control of the land, there can only be never ending conflict which at some point will culminate in the possible exchange of weapons of mass destruction in which we all pay the consequence.

16. Jeremy Says:
    June 16th, 2007 at 2:35 am

    Here is a piece done by the Seattle Times on the Palestinian-Israeli inveterate fighting:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/nation-world/mideast/revolts/

17. alec Says:
    June 16th, 2007 at 3:59 pm

    Who is going to miss Fatah? I certainly won’t

18. SaneInSF Says:
    June 17th, 2007 at 12:26 am

    Jeremy,

    You’re just a walking excuse bag.

    “Spoken like a true imperialist.”

    I’ve won if all you can do is use stupid labels such as this.

    “If self-hating is keeping and abiding by ones word, then I suppose I am one of those. Or is it that you can’t trust a damn thing the U.S. or any European power says? I suspect the latter is spot on.”

    Abide by ones word? Who’s word? I certainly didn’t give my word to anyone. Did you personally give your word personally?

    “It must be okay to build apartheid walls as long as it is one of our allies constructing it. Perhaps Putin should turn the tables and proclaim “TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!â€Â? I don’t see that garnering as much fanfare though.”

    Apartheid? Nice big word. Did you live in South Africa during the Apartheid era? Or is it just something you read about on the Internet? And WTF does Putin have anything to do with this?

    Who gives a flying —- who lived where? Frankly, Jeremy, you’re being a “useful idiot” by giving trying to give credence to excuses used to justify violence by would-be tyrants. These people don’t care about history or who deserves to live where — they are just looking for power. History is littered with rulers who try to use some myth or history to justify their power grab.

    And if you don’t understand that, you really need to get out into the real world more often.

19. Jeremy Says:
    June 18th, 2007 at 4:44 pm

    So the word “Apartheid” is only contextually meaningful if it is used in conjunction with South Africa apartheid? Lol, You really are intelligent aren’t you?

    Definition:
    apart·heid
    Pronunciation: &-’pär-”tAt, -”tIt
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Afrikaans, from apart apart + -heid -hood
    1 : racial segregation; specifically : a former policy of segregation and political and economic discrimination against non-European groups in the Republic of South Africa
    2 : SEPARATION, SEGREGATION

    “You’re just a walking excuse bag.

    “Spoken like a true imperialist.�

    I’ve won if all you can do is use stupid labels such as this.”

    “Who gives a flying â€â€?- who lived where? Frankly, Jeremy, you’re being a “useful idiotâ€Â? by giving trying to give credence to excuses used to justify violence by would-be tyrants.”

    I’ve won if all you can do is use stupid labels such as this.

    And speaking of justifying violence, you seem to think Israel can bomb and kill whom ever they wish, because, after all, it’s always just self-defense right? Perhaps you should read some history on the matter. Try picking up a book that doesn’t requiring coloring next time.

    And while we are on the topic of unjustified killing, what about the
    Jewish guerrilla faction Irgun. They bombed the King David Hotel in 1946 killing 91 innocent people?

    Or the fact that the Israelis after the 1972 in retaliation of 11 athletes being murdered at Munich olympics they went globe- trotting around the world killing those whom they “believed” were involved in the murders not to mention the innocent bystanders who lost their lives because they happen to be in the way of Israels bloodlust for revenge.

    There are just as many cases where Israelis have committed equally heinous crimes against humanity as the so-called “terrorist” Palestinians have. Tit for tat Israel has committed more
    than its share of killing and terrorism. No one here is saying the murder is justified, not if it is committed by Palestinian people or Israelis. I suggest you read a little of that “communist propaganda” Noam Chomsky is so well known to propagate. It’s just too damn bad for you that it is true.

20. Jimmy the Dhimmi Says:
    June 18th, 2007 at 6:34 pm

    And while we are on the topic of unjustified killing, what about theJewish guerrilla faction Irgun. They bombed the King David Hotel in 1946 killing 91 innocent people?

    We can see the repercussions of this today, namely, the bloody 61 year war between the British and the Israelis that has raged since then. The endless back and forth cycle of violence – who’s to blame? Its hard to tell; they are both rather white and rich.

    There are just as many cases where Israelis have committed equally heinous crimes against humanity as the so-called “terrorist� Palestinians have.

    Because killing the killers of innocent people must be morally equivalent to killing innocent people.

21. Jeremy Says:
    June 18th, 2007 at 10:08 pm

    Here’s an article which sums up my feelings perfectly:

    http://www.alternet.org/story/54410/

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