Obama Is NOT A Muslim
By Justin Gardner | Related entries in 2008 Election, Barack, IslamI repeat, he is NOT a Muslim.
He also didn’t attend a madrassa while he was in Indonesia.
The reason I bring this up is my grandfather told me over the holidays that he wouldn’t vote for Barack because he’s a Muslim. I asked him where he heard this from and he told me some friends told him. I proceeded to tell him that it was 100% false. He didn’t really have much to say after that, but I could tell he was probably holding onto the idea that this “inside” information was still somehow true.
No big deal, right? Just one guy. Well…
Then I read this article from TNR today and I had to post something:
One unexpected thing happened at the Clinton event I described below: I chatted with a woman from nearly Millersburg, who looked to be in her late sixties, and who plans to caucus. [...]She said there was a lot of debate and indecision, and that people have concerns about each candidates’ particular weaknesses. Specifically, she said some people are “worried” about Obama’s race, and whether it might make him unelectable. She continued:
“That, and the fact that he’s a Muslim,” she said, without a trace of irony or guile. “That’s where we got all our problems from.”
“Do you really believe it’s a fact that he’s a Muslim?” I asked. “Because it’s not true.”
“Well, that’s what I’ve heard,” she replied, seemingly unfazed.
Are Democrats really ignorant enough to believe this? Anybody have any stories they can share about Dems saying this as if it were fact?
This entry was posted on Wednesday, January 2nd, 2008 and is filed under 2008 Election, Barack, Islam. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
January 2nd, 2008 at 5:27 pm
In response to your first question: Yes, of course they are. And so are many Republicans. And independents. I think you’re (either nobly or foolishly) fighting against lay ignorance. What I mean by that is that the vast majority of people neither follow news closely, nor feel bad about it. They trust things friends (who probably don’t follow the news much either) tell them as truth. And for many, they trust it double if its lascivious or unlikely.
January 2nd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
There is a large viewership for television shows opposite the news. Readership of newspapers and news magazines is declining. No one who watches Fox News as the only source of their news will ever hear of anything that makes the RNC unhappy. And that covers a lot of news lately.
Politics is hardly the only area in which Americans are quite happy to be ignorant. How many Americans buy into the “It’s only a theory.” argument against evolution because they understand nothing about science? Do they understand the history of their own religion or their own country?
Then there’s this one. Doesn’t it make you proud?
January 3rd, 2008 at 12:06 am
I can tell you where a lot of this is coming from. There is a chain e-mail that has been circulating on the net for over a year about Obama being a Muslim. Snopes documents it here.. Because it is a chain letter, it usually arrives in the inbox from a friend or family. The Snopes home page shows this Obama smear to be the third “hottest” urban legend even now. I got one last year from a cousin. Whenever I get something like this, I usually take the time to send a letter back up the chain to every e-mail I can find on the list, calling it a hoax, linking snopes and asking everyone on the list to send a retraction e-mail. The net effect, is they stop sending them to me.
January 3rd, 2008 at 8:11 am
Well, he is a Muslim apostate that converted to Christianity in his early adulthood. I wonder what the Muslim world will think once that story breaks on Al-Jazeera. Apostasy is the ultimate sin according to all 4 schools of Sharia jurisprudence - even worse than murder. Barack Obama might want to “revert” to Islam in order to gain respect of the Muslim world, which is something he has pledged during his campaign.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:14 am
Deary me!!! What about his ability to do the job?
How is about America elects my cat on the basis that he is the reincarnation of a Catholic saint? That would seem to carry more weight than his ability.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:27 am
“Well, he is a Muslim apostate… Jimmy</blockquote
Um. No he is not. To be an apostate he would first have to have been Muslim. He never was. As in not ever.
From his website and snopes (linked above):
Interestingly, you managed to get two things completely factually wrong in your one short post. While some in islam may subscribe to that view of apostasy, the majority do not [link]
In any case, the question of muslim apostasy is no more relevant for Obama than it is for you.
Now that you know the facts, I am sure you will stop repeating this falsehood.
January 3rd, 2008 at 11:27 am
It also occurs to me - after reading the TMV link - there is another couple of rationales involved here.
First is this -
It is a whole lot easier to say “Obama is a Muslim; don’t vote for a Muslim” than it is to admit “I am a racist. No way is a black man going to be President.” The same person would also likely be a misoginist and refuse to vote for a woman…
Second is this -
There is a large element of Confirmation Bias involved. Not only is it much more credible to hear “facts” from near and dear, it is far more likely that one will hear the “right facts”; the “facts” that fit best with long held preconceptions and prejudices.
Listen to Jimmy for a good dose of both. :D ;)
January 3rd, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Yeah, yeah…
One person in this thread has the courage to state the facts and he is being furtively accused of bias, in the least. Shall I name names or are the “intellectually smart ones” able to comprehend?
“Racist! Have you been beating your wife lately? and more” are the recurring accusations thrown around when liberals or whatever they call themselves find discomfort with the truth.
This world would run smoother if they’d quit construing self-serving interpretations out of comments without malice.
My take ~
Don’t vote for Obama, Clinton or Edwards.
They are wrong for the job of CIC, regardless of race, religion or gender.
January 3rd, 2008 at 1:57 pm
I’m not. I am voting for Ron Paul in the primaries.
Wrong again. I assume you are referring to Jimmy. He was stating falsehoods, without any substantiation. I corrected him by stating facts, with links to support my facts. You are reinforcing and repeating Jimmy’s falsehoods, without any supporting facts. Moreover, you raise a straw man protesting accusations of racism, when in fact the only only person in this thread to use the word racist is you. Odd. Methinks you doth protest too much.
So let us review.
I have stated facts with supporting links.
You and Jimmy are spreading falsehoods with no supporting links.
I think that should clear this up. Happy to help.
January 3rd, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Oops - Quotes in above comment were supposed to be attributed to Elisabetta not Prob. My bad. Also I now see that Prob was the first to bring up racism. I missed that.
January 4th, 2008 at 11:10 am
*Oops*? mw, what a strange way to apologize, after telling me “wrong again…blah…blah.” Was there another time? Please tell.
“Oh enllghtened one” how does it feels to eat crow?
My remarks were directed at probligo who declared that if you say Obama is/was a muslim as a reason for not voting for the guy, you are actually thinking “he is black and therefore….”
Considering, you stuck your foot in your mouth, spouting off that Jimmy and I were propagating “falsehoods,” read this link
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0716/p01s01-uspo.html and you’ll see why people draw the logical conclusion he was raised a muslim and later converted to christianity.
Don’t miss this bit:
“After his mother was remarried, to an Indonesian Muslim, and the family moved to Indonesia, Obama went first to a Catholic academy and then a public Muslim school open to students of all beliefs. ”
Ergo, Jimmy was spreading anything but the truth.
January 4th, 2008 at 11:11 am
‘They are wrong for the job of CIC, regardless of race, religion or gender.’
…and here was I thinking that you were electing a President? OK I know it is part of the JD.
But follow that path and you end up with Mushariff…
January 4th, 2008 at 11:20 am
English please. More NONSENSICAL non-discourse by probligo.
January 4th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Correction.
Jimmy was NOT spreading anything but the truth.
January 4th, 2008 at 11:31 am
I expressed:” Don’t vote for Obama, Clinton or Edwards…”
mw replies: “I’m not. I am voting for Ron Paul in the primaries.”
Watch out, in probligo’s highly evolved intellect a non-vote for a dem equates to association with Musharraf.
January 4th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
So Elisabetta,
Which of these words do you not understand?
The incredible gall to insist that you know better than the individual himself whether or not he was raised a Muslim is beyond all comprehension.
So I will correct again. With Jimmy, expressed once and corrected, it was a falsehood. In your case, with you continuing to deliberately attempt to promote a debunked discredited story, it is a malicious lie.
January 4th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
That ain’t my story, and if you want to accuse someone of lying tell it to the CSmonitor. The fact that he attended a Muslim school means that he was, at least, ‘exposed’ to muslim indoctrination.
My statement was “that would draw people to conclude he was a Muslim.”
Let’s recap.
First, my initial post dealt with probligo insinuating racism. You mistakenly or not, misread and/or read more into it than I had intended to comment on.
Second, the fact that Jimmy has not responded to your “correction” doesn’t mean he is buying it.
Third, as for promoting a lie, all I have done is link to a reliable source that allows those interested on the topic to agree or disagree.
You, don’t seem able to tell the difference.
FYI, a *malicious lie* as per Merriam-Webster is:
An assertion of something known or believed to be untrue by the speaker or writer with the intent to deceive.
You missed the mark.
January 4th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Ok. Lets review.
The false assertion is - Obama was raised a Muslim.
We know it is false because Obama says it is false. But that is not good enough for you. Apparently you would prefer to believe what you want to believe, for reasons only you can explain. You have a burden of proof, since you are asserting your statement of belief about Obama in direct contradiction to what has been stated by Obama - who is the only one who would know.
Jimmy said that Obama was a Muslim apostate, which by definition means that he was muslim and gave up the faith. This is not true, because (see above) he never was a muslim and was not raised a muslim.
You charge in and claim that Jimmy is the only one in the thread telling the truth. Again, the only thing Jimmy said is that Obama was a muslim. You offer no facts, but somehow you still know that Jimmy was speaking the truth that Obama was a muslim.
When I call you on that, you offer a CS Monitor article, which I have read. At no point anywhere in that article does it say that Obama ever was a muslim. You misquote the article, possibly with the intent to deceive, saying he attended a “muslim school” when the article says he attended a “mulsim public school.” for two years after attending a Catholic school for two years. Thats it. That is all that is in the article to support the conclusion that Obama was a muslim. The article says not one word about Obama being a muslim, being schooled as a muslim, or being raised as a muslim. All of those assertions are 100% in your mind as you yourself state “that would draw people to conclude he was a Muslim” I repeat - all in your mind in direct contradiction to what Obama or his spokesmen has said specifically and unequivocally on the subject.
That should be enough, but the story of this school was also described in detail in the snopes article I linked earlier. I will the copy the relevant portion from the CNN story cited there now for your benefit, so you don’t have to continue to make up your own conclusions without the benefit of facts. Here are the facts:
If you continue to assert that Obama was a muslim (“Jimmy was not spreading anything but the truth”), in direct contradiction of Obama’s own statements, with these facts in evidence clarifying the only basis you offer for your apparent leap of intuitive logic “that would draw people to conclude he was a Muslim”
Then I say I hit the mark dead center.
January 4th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Whoa, wait a minute. I never said he was raised a Muslim. I don’t know whether he was or not, Jim. Take that issue up with Elisabetta.
What I said was that his father was a Muslim, and therefore he was born a Muslim, so his identity as a Muslim would be cast onto him, sort of like a Catholic baby at a baptism, according to Islamic Sharia laws.
Though Barack Obama may not have been raised under the guidance of the Islamic religion, he was technically a Muslim and therefore when he adopted the Christian faith in early adulthood, he became an apostate.
And the punishment for apostasy is death. If you want a link, here is one from chapter 37 paragraph 19 of the Maliki Sharia code, which isn’t particularly different from any of the other 3 schools of Sharia:
Some have suggested that Obama’s father was a lapsed Muslim, who wasn’t particularly devout, and therefore “apostasized” from Islam before Barak was born. I don’t know if this is true or not, or if this would disqualify Barack from being born a Muslim, but that is a question for the Imams to figure out.
And believe me, they will try, if Barack Obama becomes president.
January 5th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Unbelievable! You, mw, construct a FALSE premise and THEN expect me to defend it.
Listen clearly.
I never wrote/claimed Obama was raised a muslim ONLY that he attended a muslim school (link).
Further, I stated “THAT would draw PEOPLE to conclude he was a Muslim.”
Personally, whether Obama was/was not raised a muslim is of little importance. I don’t support the guy, and don’t think he will win the nomination.
It’s however interesting what other people besides you think.
BTW, do you believe everything other politicians claim or do you reserve that privilege only for Obama and RP?
Jimmy’s initial comment that Obama converted from islam to christianity has been your bone of contention.
Stop making more out of what I said. If you were interested in the truth, you’d take back your unfounded falsity of “the straw man and who brought racism into this argument”.
Instead you have been dead silent on your FALSE accusations. “Oops” won’t cut it.
My dispute in this whole discussion rests primarily with probligo’s insinuation of racism if one doesn’t prefer a particular candidate.
I will only amend my statement that Jimmy’s comments were nothing but the truth, as I don’t know. The same goes for your assertions.
That’s all I will do, so save your breath.
January 5th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Addendum to mw ~
I find intriguing that you spent so much time “straightening me” out on the Obama’s issue, getting up in arms so that I or others fall into lockstep with you. Being quick to brand those that might disagree with you as promoters of falsity.
Yet, you have not given one thought, one remark with regard to probligo’s dangerous way of thinking.
Shall I conclude you are birds of a feather?
January 5th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Elisabetta, please explain why it should matter if Obama is a Muslim and President.
It is always presented - and this is mw’s point as I see it - to imply that it should in some way disqualify him from being President; that people should not vote for him because he is a Muslim.
Now, if there is no religious reason for voting against Obama why should he be subjected to this campaign. None of the other candidates have their religion called in question. So, there must be another reason…
Could it be that he is not white?
Is that clear now?
The question whether a woman should be CinC is at least both clear and direct. Is the person raising that question a misoginist or not? Does male or female make any difference to the ability to do the job?
So, why should a person’s religion make any difference?
January 5th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Sorry, it’s not so.
mw’ s point has been - as evidenced by the specious charges he has leveled against me, time and again - that Obama never was nor is a muslim.
He is so convinced he is right that he has repeatedly and willingly put my character in question, on the basis that I may not agree. He absolutely doesn’t allow for dissension on the subject, accusing me of orchestrated deception, notwithstanding my explanations.
Ironically, I didn’t have an opinion on Barack’s religion prior to this exchange. However, since mw has been waging a personal battle to label me a liar I have gone from a neutral position to a skeptical one.
He expects me to take Obama’s words at face value, while he “devises” my intentions!
Mw: *You misquote the article, possibly with the intent to deceive, *
Outlandish, to say the least!
probligo: *None of the other candidates have their religion called in question. So, there must be another reason…*
Where have you been? Mitt Romney’s religion has been motive of public scrutiny.
As far as people’s religion being inconsequential, it seems that it becomes primary issue only if the candidate is a republican professing a belief in God, or in the case of Romney, a mormon.
For once, a democrat’s religious beliefs are briefly under the microscope and you are whine racism and treachery.
Your (probligo) beliefs were the core of my rebuttal when mw decided to get on a soapbox.
You allege that anyone that opposes Obama for his religion, must be a racist; and if one opposes Hillary he must be a woman hater… and if the guy were gay he’d be a homophobe! Quite self-serving.
Otoh, it’s ok to trash black conservatives with racists comments, and drag conservative women and men alike through the mud, as that falls under “partisanship.”
How simplistic and one-sided.
January 5th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
The point is this: Obama is not a muslim, never was a muslim and never will be a muslim. End of story. Done and done. Let’s move on.
January 5th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
good luck with that Justin. There are people on this thread that know better than Obama whether he was a muslim. You have to admire that kind of deep intuitive thinking.
I am satisfied that both Elisabetta and Jimmy have rewritten their positions from what they stated earlier in the thread. All you have to do is read what they wrote.
And Jimmy is still wrong about the apostasy, both by describing a minority view of extreme muslims as if holds for the entire religion (it does not - see my learlier comment and link) and by stating it apples to Obama (who never was a muslim).
Now I’m done.
January 5th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
I seem not to have qualified why Barack was condiered to be a officially a Muslim (that his father was one) in my first post, but I claimed I did in the second one. my mistake.
Anyway, Nothing I said about Sharia law is untrue, but you claim to be an expert on mainstream interpretations of these Mudhabs, so you quote for me a line from those epistles that says apostasy is NOT a crime punishable by death.
January 6th, 2008 at 2:16 am
And I will leave the field too. I love the way that E has avoided my point.
When a viral campaign like this starts - Who starts these things? What kind of person sends them to all of their friends? What are they hoping to achieve?
Here are my answers -
People who are opposed to Obama for any of a number of reasons.
People who agree with the sentiment of the statement, or are sufficiently stupid to believe that because it is on the ‘net it must be true.
Stopping Obama, or whoever, from being elected.
E, have you ever passed on a chain email without checking its validity? If you have, Why? Oh, that should be rhetorical - answer not required. Personally, any of these things coming in my mailbox -whether I agree or not - they just get binned.
But that is just me… BTW this morning’s paper has an article on Obama. I have had no time to read it, but it carries the tempter that the number of Americans who would vote on racial lines has decreased from 56% to just 6%. I withdraw my “racist” comment, but am still nonplussed as to why Muslim is raised as a reason for not voting for the man.
January 7th, 2008 at 8:59 am
mw, you have dishonestly overlooked your lies about me as you argued to “know” my motives and claim some kind of victory. Not totally surprized considering the source.
fyi, my position - that you continue to misrepresent - hasn’t changed. I was addressing probligo’s irrational logic and I amended one point that came afterwards.
So, continue to pick and choose what you want to focus on….I have wasted enough time responding to you
To Justin ~
perhaps, you should have addressed mw’s personal attacks.
January 7th, 2008 at 9:25 am
probligo, not only I have addressed your point, but I am still waiting for a rational explanation to your illogical deductions that an individual who raises a question about someone’s religion or chooses not to vote for a candidate that is either black (dem), woman (dem) that individual is - in your mind - guilty of hatred and bias.
It seems to me, you have just shown your own preconceptions. After all, it was you that following your thoughts on bias and hatred wrote, “Listen to Jimmy for a good dose of both.”
Were your intentions to be funny, it was in bad taste.
As for me, I wouldn’t vote for either Obama or Clinton or Edwards because of their ideologies. Is that good enough for you?
Apropos of chain letter, all my family and friends know I dislike this method of communication. I am wary of most of them. Never received one dealing with politics and very rarely have forwarded them. Solely the ones dealing with personal safety.
In fact, I delete them, with few exceptions, at once.
Now, I have a question that has been waiting for an answer.
Where do you stand when someone, besides a black dem, gets bashed due to his religion?
January 7th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Elisabetta: “Where do you stand when someone, besides a black dem, gets bashed due to his religion?”
No one was bashing him on his religion since he’s not now nor ever was a muslem. Liar. You simply can’t help but lie can you? I really, truly don’t think I’ve ever encountered anyone in my life as incredibly dishonest and down right stu-pid as you!!!! No wonder you love Bush.
January 7th, 2008 at 10:31 am
I was wondering how long before you interjected your inanity in this thread.
Have you taken your drugs today? That foaming at the mouth is repulsive. Your behavior borders stalking.
Just 4 days ago, you posted an absolute canard about something I never said and you call me a liar and stupid?
Here: C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\Obama’s Victory Speech.htm
You are one of those people unable to carry on a conversation outside of verbal attacks. There is no substance to your comments. No matter the topic, all you can spew is “Bush….invectives.”
A fool never knows when to quit. You are a sight to behold.
January 7th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Probligo asked:
“When a viral campaign like this starts - Who starts these things? What kind of person sends them to all of their friends? What are they hoping to achieve?”
The person that put it out there for others to ponder, is none other than Hillary Clinton, aided by other dems. Hillary (as Bill) has smear down to a science. Incidentally she is a woman. Lest we forget, a dem. Her reasons are all too clear.
The causes for the aversion toward her may vary, but her gender is not one of them
January 7th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Infamous Quote of the Day by david:
“No one was bashing him on his religion since he’s not now nor ever was a muslem”
Ignorant or deluded. Take your pick. What did you think was the gist of Justin’s post?
and what’s a *muslem*? PAY ATTENTION!! The last question is rhetorical.
January 7th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Let’s see Elisabetta, you blither moronic crap like “Where do you stand when someone, besides a black dem, gets bashed due to his religion?” and then ask if I’m “Ignorant or deluded”? Like I said, I have never encountered a more ignorant and dishonest person than you. You are even dishonest by republican standards…let me guess, you love Mitt, right? God help America with dishonest, biggoted scum like you trying to destroy her at every turn.
January 7th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
BTW Elisabetta, muslem is a perfectly acceptable spelling for the word used to describe people of the Islamic faith. I suggest you look things before you try to belittle people. All you did was display your incredible stupidity.
January 7th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
People, grow up and can the rhetoric please. Or do you not understand why this site exists? I will turn this car around I swear!
No, but seriously folks, wtf? Calm down. And Elisabetta, your schtick is extremely transparent. Still, it should elicit a response like that from David. Calling people scum? What’s wrong with you?
If this is the type of dialogue you’re going to have, both of you aren’t welcome here. Keep it civil or don’t comment. Pretty simple.
January 7th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Justin,
Maybe you missed it, but I only respond to the idiot when he engages in ad homs. He can’t discuss the issues and has made unsubstantiated allegations, calling me stupid, liar and worse with such venom on anything I comment that leads me to think he is off his rocker.
Every time I write a positive comment about someone (now it’s Romney) he engages in personal attacks as exemplified in this thread!!
I don’t care if he ignores my posts, but I am not going to let his bouncers remain unchallenged. If anyone here is violating rules of civility, it’s him. You’d put him in place too if he harassed you.
January 7th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
“BTW Elisabetta, muslem is a perfectly acceptable spelling for the word used to describe people of the Islamic faith. I suggest you look things before you try to belittle people. All you did was display your incredible stupidity.”
Really? The word you spelled doesn’t exist in the dictionary. The other variant of muslim is “moslem.”
The rest goes without saying.
January 8th, 2008 at 4:10 am
Justin, sorry, it’s very dificult for me to be civil while people do their very best to destroy this great country with lies and ignorance. Good thing the founding fathers didn’t value civility above freedom, truth and the constitution, trust me, they are spinning in their graves.
Elisabetta:
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
Mus·lim /?m?zl?m, ?m?z-, ?m?s-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[muhz-lim, mooz-, moos-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, noun, plural -lims, -lim.
–adjective 1. of or pertaining to the religion, law, or civilization of Islam.
–noun 2. an adherent of Islam.
3. Black Muslim.
Also, Moslem, Muslem (for defs. 1, 2).
Do you ever admit you’re wrong?
January 8th, 2008 at 8:27 am
It seems rather clear to me now…Obama is a big ole’ Muslim. Yup, he’s an Allah-lover head-to-toe. I’m personally offended that Michelle is running around without her hijab. Barack needs to think seriously about…well, killing her. It is the only right thing for a Muslim man to do — the chick is out of control. Given the media’s love for multiculturalism, I’m sure everyone would understand.
January 8th, 2008 at 10:29 am
David, concerning the word muslem, neither of the dictionaries I consulted carried it. Guess they were incomplete.
How about you taking back all your prevarications?
Starting from the ones in the first thread ““Why Do Republicans Fear Huckabee?” followed by the “Obama’s Victory speech” and ending with this one. You misread, misquoted, patronized and cast aspersions. My calling you a moron and a liar was a direct response to your verbal assaults.
To hold opinions that differ with yours doesn’t equate to lying; and the fact that I comment on this blog doesn’t give you the right to get nasty and post all types of bunkum. Others have dissented with me and vice versa but it remained civil and calm. There was one exception, but it never descended to your level.
Finally, read before you leap into rage. My question to probligo was legit.
Ergo, if after reading my opinions you can’t respond in a civil fashion, IGNORE them. I do the same for yours. However, I am not going to stand by if you continue engaging in the above tactics.
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