Debate Open Thread
By Justin Gardner | Related entries in 2008 Election, Barack, Debates, McCain
Keep it clean. Keep it honest.
Game on!
(By the way, I think I’ll just post my thoughts in the comments section as the debate goes on. So please join in!)
Thoughts at 8:28 p.m. CST
Obama is detailed. McCain is shaky. John will have to right his ship soon or risk losing this thing.
Thoughts at 8:35 p.m. CST
43 comments down below. Join the conversation!
Thoughts at 8:57 p.m. CST
Obama won the economic segment, but so far the foreign policy discussion is a draw. Still, this is definitely McCain’s strong suit and he’s doing well. Share your thoughts below. 80+ comments so far.
Thoughts at 9:03 p.m. CST
Comment from Erik Sickinger:
“I don’t think Senator Obama understands…”
I’m going to start doing shots everytime McCain says that.I’ll be drunk in 20 minutes.
And McCain just said it again.
Erik is now trashed.
Thoughts at 9:40 p.m. CST
Agnostick says…
It means much more to me that McCain has turned his back on independent voters in the past three or four months.
And so it ends. Thank you all SO much for being with me tonight and talking about this debate. Do know that I think this “stream” (thank you to commenter Split Party Household for that term) is how I will conduct debate “live blogs” from now on. This was A LOT of fun and I can’t imagine doing it any differently ever again.
Now, on to the spin! :-)
This entry was posted on Friday, September 26th, 2008 and is filed under 2008 Election, Barack, Debates, McCain. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
This format is weird. Lehrer saying “Hey, talk to each other!” just doesn’t work. Because the first one to engage in that runs a serious risk. But who knows…maybe they will.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
McCain seems to be implying that he approves of the plan proposed by the House Republicans. That doesn’t say much for his judgement, IMO.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
It felt like Obama had a little stronger opening here, McCain sounded a little more shaky - nervous.
McCain just said “I hope so”. He just doesn’t sound definitive yet.
His “plan” was less specific, Obama’s a little more so.
(Obama supporter, registered GOP voter here)
September 26th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
McCain sounds a little scattered right now. But I like what he’s saying about how greed and corruption.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
THIS IS WEIRD!
Lehrer actually told Obama, “Say it to him.”
HAHAHA…jeezus.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
He said, “I hope so” because there is no official plan yet. No one has really mentioned a plan other than oversight, wall street and main street. Very superficial and careful right now on both sides.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
You’re right, this is a stupid format!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Obama is continuing to sound more specific, less “politicky”
Are we really proud that we are the best importer?
UH OH
Spending?
Watch out McCain - don’t talk about earmarks, you are opening yourself open for a Palin attack.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
What a shame that nothing in his record shows that he has ever really had a problem with it before. The level of deregulation he has historically supported will always lead to this level of greed. It seems he’s just discovered his problem with it. And he still supports tax cuts for the greediest and wealthiest. How can you reconcile what he says tonight with what he’s really done in the past.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Oh no! Not the pen!
What a canned moment. Very Hillary. Yikes!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
I can’t wait for the “fact check” on these numbers. 2nd or 3rd time Obama mentioned Bush/McCain.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
McCain is making some good points on earmarks, but Obama framed it in a way where it doesn’t matter.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Is it just me… or did McCain just laugh like G.W. a few moments ago??
Scary!!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Twenty minutes in and we’re still on the economy. Important, too be sure, but I’m getting the feeling that we’re not going to see much foreign policy talk tonight.
“Jim S, say it to Justin!”
Yes, a bit odd on the format.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
McCain is doing a good job of getting Obama frustrated. When Obama is frustrated he tends to look bad. We’ll see. Heated = Good for McCain.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
“Say that to Obama…”
Haha, what is Jim Lehrer? A therapist?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Exiled: Funny stuff!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Jim “The Mixer” Lehrer.
Next stop: ECW!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Why didn’t they get Jerry Springer to moderate this? Or put them in a steel cage.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Yeah McCain is getting under Obama’s skin.
Good come back with the 95% of american’s get a tax code though.
Obama just sounded more populist, less “big business”
“For the first time in history, tax health benefits”
-Obama
I didn’t think he would be prepared for that.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Prediction: The winner of tonight’s shindig will be the first of these two that looks at the other and starts a sentece with “You…”
“Festooned with Christmas tree ornaments”… tasty!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Christmas tree ornaments!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
“Under your tax plan, John…”
Yowza!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
I’m sorry folks, but McCain seems unsteady and unprepared right now. He needs to right the ship and soon or else he’s going to lose this.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
uh oh Obama is making McCain smile and laugh when nothing is funny.
If he starts saying “my friends” watch out.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Notice how McCain dodges the question of how bad his health care plan is? Obama describes it accurately and McCain says nothing in response.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Do you think Obama will request a smoke break? I could use one.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Apparently McCain also forgot the recent revelations about American businesses paying no taxes.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
I want Jon Stewart to moderate one of these. Or just hold it all on “Daily Show” and “Colbert Report.”
That would be a party
reCAPTCHA is drunk… it’s spit Russian at me two times in the last 10 minutes
September 26th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Obama’s not answering the question.
He’s not saying what he will cut - but rather what he wouldn’t cut.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Obama did not answer that question AT ALL. What will you cut, not what will you do!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
“Most liberal voting record!!”
COMING UP NEXT… “My days in captivity”
September 26th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Wow Erik…great comment!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
McCain has the right idea on ethanol subsidies, but his weird little details are REALLY hurting him. Nobody knows what he’s talking about.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Hey…if Dems can have every commercial say McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time, McCain can say Obama is the most liberal senator. Only fair.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
What is the benefit of being opposed to ethanol?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
“I know how to do that”
Nice line by McCain.
The problem is its more of the same (Earmarks)
Neither candidate were ready for this question.
Interesting.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Anyone have any insight as to where the hell CNN’s “audience reaction” graph comes from?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
To be honest…neither candidate is “smooth” in this debate. A lot of hesitation and “uh…”.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Isn’t there already a site that documents all the pork? I’ve never visited, but I’ve heard about it. Justin?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
A spending freeze? Is this a completely new idea he’s just talking about now?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Scalpel vs. Hatchet. Good line from Obama.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Obama needs to go on the attack. He needs to stick it to McCain.
McCain needs to stop giggling.
Go moderator Jim. He’s taking them to task. Love it. No softballs please.
Spending freeze? omgwtflmaoabcdefg
oooh hatchet where you need a scalpel. ooooh good one obama.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
A spending freeze on everything but defense? Does he support anything besides defense?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
OH NO
Spending freeze?
McCain just made a definitive statement which he won’t be able to back up.
Like “Read my lips”, he can’t actually support a freeze.
HUGE side note here:
Obama has talked about lobbyists 3 times now by my count. Is he setting himself up to hit McCain on having so many lobbyists on his staff?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Hatchet/scalpel… good.
McCain wins on the foreign aid comment. I’d back that in a heartbeat.
How much money could our nation save if we cut all foreign aid for just 12 months??
September 26th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
THIS IS THE MOST DISJOINTED DEBATE I HAVE EVER SEEN! Awful format.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Hey, “Read my lips” got him elected didn’t it?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
$800 billion? But they’re both going to sign off on a $700 billion bailout? Har har dee har har.
Informal poll, answer with your next post:
What network are you watching?
MSNBC here
September 26th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
There McCain goes again. The healthcare plan that Obama is proposing would not be government run. It would be government subsidized
September 26th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
But unlike the DCC of old, they won’t let him get away with it.
You can’t have a spending freeze.
When is Obama going to hit McCain on Palin’s spending?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
This ORGY of spending!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
It’s kind of hard to swallow!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
2nd time McCain says “miss congeniality”
When you refer to your talking points that often, its a sign you are ruffled.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Disjointed, yes, but Obama is beginning to be more direct at McCain.
Obama has looked across at McCain several times now; McCain has yet to give Obame the Evil Eye.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Watching on the local NBC station(no cable by choice).
They need to stop interrupting each other.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Justin…you know and I know that Obama’s plan effectively will be government run with the direct regulation of the insurance companies. Just because you put in a “middleman” does not mean it is not government run. It’s fine if you’re for socialized medicine but don’t say it’s not that.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
ohhhhh…he mentioned Palin. Bad move John. Stay far, far, far away from Palin at this point.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Agnostick, if my memory serves me correctly our foreign aid is something like .001% of our budget. We provide the least amount of foreign aid as a percentage of our GDP of any industrialized nation.
Ouch. McCain just lied. They have the video of him saying he voted with Bush 90% of the time. That just isn’t a “maverick”.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
How exactly does one “win” an occupation?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
“It’s fine if you’re for socialized medicine but don’t say it’s not that.”
It’s not that. And I wouldn’t care if it was. All the arguments about the superiority of the “free market” in healthcare is BS.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Yeah foreign aid accounts for 1% of the budget.
13-15 billion a year.
Nothing compared to our spending in Iraq.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Sorry Split Party Household. That’s just not correct. He’ll give people money to buy insurance. That’s it. End of story.
If you think that will lead to socialized medicine, I think that’s an opinion about where it will end up. But it’s not a fact.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
>>>It’s not that. And I wouldn’t care if it was. All the arguments about the superiority of the “free market” in healthcare is BS.<<<
My 28 yo daughter wouldn’t be able to afford free market healthcare due to existing medical conditions.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Okay, out come the VEEPS! Here we go!!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
“I’m proud of my vice-presidential selection”
a shadow hit at mccain for palin.
You want to act like the war started in 2007, but it started in 2003.
He’s hitting mccain.
“You were wrong”
September 26th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Here comes that goofy smile.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Jim S, I would care if it were socialized medicine.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Okay, so that’s why Obama never went to Iraq–he never got an invite from Petraeus!
Troops vs. timetables… I think Obama got him on that one.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
But what is socialized medicine? Neither our current system or anything resembling it will come close to solving our issues. Do you really find the idea of over 40,000,000 people having little to no access to health care acceptable? Because the market based system will never every do a thing about it.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Obama got McCain on the Iraq vs Afghanistan situation.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Good line from McCain about Petraeus and Osama.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
I think McCain is doing well in the military conversation…he has to in order to succeed.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Did McCain do a mea culpa on walking away from Afghanistan?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
In this open debate format, McCain should know he can’t hit Obama on false claims. He will come back.
It feels to me like Obama is on the attack in a defensive way (if that makes sense)
McCain also needs to stop saying “what Obama doesn’t understand…” I feel like its a wedge statement that will turn off independents.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran!!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
“Sung songs about bombing Iran”
WHOAaaa
he went there?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
No. He was talking about what happened back in the ’80s. The stupidity of succeeding in helping them boot out the Soviet Union and then doing nothing to follow up left a vacuum that was eventually filled by the Taliban. He couldn’t bring himself to admit the mistake from 2003.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
“I don’t think Senator Obama understands…”
I’m going to start doing shots everytime McCain says that.
I’ll be drunk in 20 minutes.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Okay, Obama just spent 60 seconds talking directly to McCain.
McCain’s gaze has never averted from Lehrer. Anyone else seeing this?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
McCain just supported the non-democratic military coup that brought Musharraf to power. Does anyone realize that? He just defended a military coup!!
September 26th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
You know that all kinds of regs and and an entire new federal beauracracy will be created. If you want the money you’re going to buy from the market that the feds regulate price and coverage. I don’t know if that is socialism, but it socialistic, which means its going to be expensive and run like crap.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
McCain’s back in Vietnam…
And Obama is still talking to McCain…
September 26th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
“I’ve got a bracelet too”
Obama is no Kerry, he’s no Al Gore.
He’s talking tough tonight, and sounding relevant. McCain is talking history. Not a good way to show your prescience.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Obama is starting to look down more - he needs to keep his eyes up he does really well when he can keep eye contact.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Given that the Iraqi government wants a timeline not that different from Obama’s how does McCain proposing ignoring them?
September 26th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Your reading of the threat from Iran.
Blink…Blink…
My, reading…on the threat of Iran…. is
A second holocaust?
A league of Democracies?
Are we back in the 1920’s?
I like he didn’t jump right to military talk when Iran was mentioned.
McCain is much more prepared on Iran, despite his pauses in the beginning.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Ooo Obama is first to mention Israel, and in a positive “lets defend them” stance.
Tough, direct, diplomacy with iran—> here’s a wedge. Obama can use that as a power point - Bush sent a diplomat there 2 months ago, no?
McCain sounds like an A-hole right now with his facial expressions and the way he’s talking.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
That’ll come out tomorrow.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
GREAT POINT by McCain about the direct talks…completely agree.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
I’m not sure I buy into McCain’s whole argument that just because you sit down with somebody, you somehow “legitimize” them.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
McCain just woke up on Iran. Obama needs to get some fire, he’s falling into his comfort zone.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Obama has pulled the Iran issue back from McCain. McCain had owned it, but citing Kissinger was a sage move.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
“I don’t even have a seal yet”… OOOOHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
September 26th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
ooooh
Obama. walked all over McCain on this issue of meeting leaders.
brutal combo. fatality. obama wins.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
McCain left himself open for the “Bush just sent a diplomat” rebuttal.
And Obama hit him.
Obama just hit McCain on the Spain comment.
Was the “i dont have a seal” yet comment a low blow?
“What Obama doesn’t understand..”
Geezus McCain come on.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Who’s right on the Kissinger comment.
Anyone know?
September 26th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
You’d better quit trying to laugh naturally, Senator McCain. You’re failing miserably.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Kissinger would negotiate with anyone if he thought it was in the best interests of the U.S. They called it Realpolitik. Does McCain have amnesia or something?
September 26th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
CBS recently factchecked that after Palin claimed that Kissinger didn’t say that. He did.
HOWEVER, we’ll see what Kissinger says tomorrow in clarification.
Still, it’s probably a wash.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
“A little bit of naivete… He doesn’t understand!”
Erik, you drunk yet??
September 26th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
“He doesn’t understand” AGAIN!
Will Obama go after McCain on the statement by Colin Powell saying Georgia were the aggressors?
September 26th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Will McCain mention Palin’s experience with Russia. :-)
September 26th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Precondition –noun 1. something that must come before or is necessary to a subsequent result. Parsing words is a good comment considering this definition.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Just a quick synopsis… no significant change in the polls after this debate. I am a Rebuplican myself, but would call it an overall draw. Just trying to be fair.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
McCain: “Watch Ukraine.”
Okay, I will.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Also…Justin, thanks for the debate “stream”. Good times.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
We have to have foresight…
“I warned the White House we have russian peacekeepers in Georgia, and that didn’t make sense.”
Russia is resurgent because of oil (very true)
Obama has strength in the argument that we need alternative methods to energy besides oil.
That’s where Iran and Russia’s power recently come from.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Here’s the thing…McCain had to OWN Obama on foreign policy. He’s not doing it. Obama’s keeping it to a draw at this point and he’s starting to tie it to the energy, which may even tilt it towards Obama.
Share your thoughts.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Obama’s line of the night, “That’s not true.”
September 26th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Yeah, thanks Justin!
More on body language: I’ve also seen Obama look directly into the camera more than once. I’ve never seen McCain do that.
McCain has an audience of one: Jim Lehrer.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
I beat you to the punch JG.
If Obama can keep the argument on alternative energy sources, he will tie or win that argument.
Who seems more presidential tonight?
September 26th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
I wonder what McCain’s line of the night is.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
McCain’s pause on the 9/11 question was perfect, I like Obama but McCain is solid in this debate.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Debate stream! I like that! I think that’ll be how I talk about these posts from now on.
And, by the way, thank YOU! Please join the conversation in more posts. This site thrives on honest, respectful conversations, and I think this stream has proved just that.
2 minutes left! :-)
September 26th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Justin - Disagree. It may sound trite to me and the people on this blog, but McCain’s consistent “I was there” and “I have done this” comments reinforce his knowledge of foreign affairs by stating experience over theory.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
“so we don’t torture a prisoner, ever again”
Nice to hear that from McCain…finally
Obama sounds good when it comes to national defense.
Who would have thought?
September 26th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Obama’s answer to the “post 9/11″ question was stronger because he was detailed and talked about America’s “respect” while crediting McCain’s work on torture.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Obama is more “presidential” tonight. Body language is more personable. Sure, he’s better with a prepared speech, but who isn’t? I’ve been hearing about how good McCain is supposed to be in a “town hall” format–I don’t see that translating here.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
“We are less respected now than we were 8 years ago”
Good line.
Good job building on McCain’s statement of torture.
For the last time (and first) there is no defeat or victory in Iraq (Patraeus)
September 26th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Sorry, SPH, but experience alone is not enough. You have to have learned something from that experience. McCain apparently has not.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
McCain has done a very good job of beating home a theme.
“I have the experience.”
“Ive done [x]”
“What Senator Obama doesn’t understand.”
“Senator Obama doesn’t get it.”
Trite, sure. Effective, undoubtedly.
That said, Obama has done a fine job of parrying effectively, and he has hit McCain with a number of good shots and done a very good job of discrediting a number of the lies the McCain campaign has pushed.
I’d give a slight edge to McCain overall, but Obama has won on the economy, and thats hands down the biggest issue. So overall, its a draw, and McCain simply can’t win this race if he goes one for one. He needs to WIN these hands down. He hasn’t done that.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Well, I disagree that Obama is talking about is “theory.” He’s talking about a lot of real world realities.
But fair enough that McCain can claim more “I was there” experience. You’re right. But I think what we’re talking about now is present day judgement. And I simply think that Obama has a better gauge on the reality of today.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Jim S…I totally agree. However, you have to remember that this election will come down to the independent voters. And maybe this is part speculation, but experience does mean a lot to them. It is a source of comfort.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
obama should focus on tying foreign policy to the broader economic issues.
a strong economy is a backbone of a strong foreign policy.
he should not debate mccain on military strategy
September 26th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
And for the record, Nukes in the middle-east is not necessarily a reason for us to have missle defense as Obama says. I agree we should have it, but the powers in the middle east, at least at this point, are not the reason why.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
McCain just made another outright lie. I know he lied because I’ve heard the interview where Obama admitted that the “surge” has worked militarily. He has said so multiple times. He also pointed out the problems that still exist in Iraq. In other words he was honest. How terrible of him.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Oh no! POW!
September 26th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Who’s going to have the last word tonight?
Calling Obama stubborn? Whoops.
No points for McCain on that.
But we do need more flexibility…
I’ve been watching CNN’s tracker of Indepen/GOP/DEM and McCain hasn’t been getting the numbers you would expect from his core group.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Earmarks are legalized bribery. It has to stop. It is not about the percentage of the budget. It is all about corruption.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
ending on a war story.
i should win this debate I was in prison for 5 and a half years!
show some respect.
omgwtflmaolololabcdefg
September 26th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
And it’s done!
Obama said, “Good job John.” Didn’t hear McCain say anything, but I’m sure he congratulated Obama too.
A very weird debate, and I’ll have more soon.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
SPH: “Experience” don’t mean a hill o’ beans to this independent voter!
It means much more to me that McCain has turned his back on independent voters in the past three or four months.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
So…
a tie?
Slight win for McCain?
Both got their hits in…
Don’t know, but seeing as this was the foreign policy debate, and how strongly Obama performed, I’d say an overall win for Obama.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
A slight win for Obama in one way. When he laughed at McCain it sounded more genuine than McCain’s “laughter”. McCain’s sounded forced, like he made himself do it to put down Obama.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
On MSNBC, Gregory, Matthews and Mitchell talking about McCain’s dismissive attitude towards Obama: Will it show strength, or will it turn voters off?
This independent voter was turned off by that.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Pat Buchanan: Obama came off as a “nice guy,” McCain was “mean.”
“McCain won this, 10 rounds to 5.”
September 26th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
In this debate about foreign policy, a tie could be seen as a win for Obama tomorrow.
What do you think?
September 26th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Oh no, here’s T. Boone Pickens inviting people over to his web site to “debate the debate!”
They should be coming over HERE!!! :p!~~~~~~
September 26th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Do you want to sound like a mean guy or a nice guy when it comes to foreign policy?
I’d rather have tough, responsible, flexible.
Wouldn’t most Americans?
I’m biased, but in terms of just general viewershipness, Obama won for presidential; McCain won for talking points, consistency of hits (Obama was wrong, wrong, doesn’t understand, etc)
September 26th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
I think so, Justin. McCain did nothing to prove superior judgment in foreign affairs so those truly undecided who paid attention and care about it can certainly feel comfortable about Obama after tonight.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Don’t know, but seeing as this was the foreign policy debate, and how strongly Obama performed, I’d say an overall win for Obama.
I’m not so sure that he won outright. On the Iraq questions I thought Obama spent too much time on water under the bridge (i.e. the decision to go to war in the first place, which wasn’t even McCain’s to make). But for the most part Obama held his own, especially early on with the economic questions - which of course are what’s on everyone’s mind at the moment. So even though I thought McCain won tonight, it probably won’t be enough to give him a significant bump.
Next week, we find out whether Sarah Palin can stop the bleeding at her end of the ticket.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
I never agree with Alex Castellanos, but he’s right. With the week we’ve had with the economy, McCain may not have been perfect, but he stayed even in that part of the debate. He could have got blown out! Again, I’ll say it…pretty even overall. And I’ll admit, that benefits Obama.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
That’s kind of what I’m saying Justin.
A tie is a win for Obama
I was sweating through the entire thing.
September 26th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
I cannot believe I am going to say this, but overall I give the slight edge to McCain.
You can argue that a tie on foreign policy is a win for Obama, but given the first 1/3 of the debate was about the economic crisis I have to concede that McCain did far better than I expected. He was relaxed throughout the first third, his answers were confident, his delivery intentional. I expected a disaster and he passed.
Obama was unable to paint him as ignorent and at times stammered his way through his own points (especially at the beginning.)
McCain scored points on a gut level with you don’t increase taxes in bad times and his insistence on cutting spending were effective. Obama could not answer well on the tax increase, even though he tried to make it clear it was just for the wealthy, and he failed to pin McCain on being part of the last 8 years of drunken GOP spending.
I think overall Obama was better versed and knew the issues, but McCain did not embarass himself as he has so many times this week. So, if Obama holding his own the foreign policy is a win, then McCain holding his own in the economics is huge.
In the final 2/3, McCain was smug and condescending, but it came from a position of strength. There were more than a few annoying moments when he pushed it to far, but there is no denying he knows the issues. I may not agree with him much of the time, but he presented his points with conviction and that resonates with people.
Obama, I thought, did well in the last 2/3 of the debate, but there were some moments where he was clearly frustrated that McCain had taken control of the debate and he could not wrestle it back. Even when he had good points, his presentation lacked the force of McCain. Even when McCain was lying/misleading, Obama was unable to or refused to call him out on it. For a junior senator, he did quite well, but McCain was the victor here.
September 26th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Live Blogging the Live Bloggers - McCain v. Obama - It is on. …
Justin Gardner @ Donklephant:”Obama is detailed. McCain is shaky. John will have to right his ship soon or risk losing this thing.”…
September 26th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
I agree with Gerry. Because expectations heavily favor Obama, ties go to McCain.
September 26th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Wait.
McCain’s strength is foreign policy.
Obama’s strength is the economy (really? no…)
And because McCain didn’t flummox big time, in a big way, he “wins”?
So when Obama NAILS the economy debate, and McCain does OK, will that be a win for McCain then?
That reasoning really points to a Obama win. If Obama holds his own and has some impressive points…
I don’t know I’m drunk from too many “Obama doesn’t understand…”
September 26th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
You’re right, you’re drunk.
I know, that’s why I have a hard time saying.
Let me put it a different way.
There were two debates tonight. Debates are not only about issues, but presentation.
There was a debate on the financial crisis. For a policy wonk who pays attention to the issues, Obama had a slight edge on issues, but McCain actually won on presentation. He also successefully stuck Obama with a tax increase that people will naturally recoil from and Obama did not successuly answer this. Walking away, I didn’t thnk, well, I’m not in the 95 percent, so who cares, I thought, McCain says you don’t raises taxes in a financial crisis. McCain won by more on presentation than Obama did on issues.
There was a second debate on foreign policy.
McCain more deeply understood the issues and was confident in his answers. Even though I disagree with his stance on these issues, he presented himself well (smugness aside) and didn’t make any blunders. Obama did well for a junior senator from Illinois going up against a seasoned McCain, but he didn’t outperform him on the issues or presentation. For example, there’s no doubt that going into Iraq was a mistake; Obama was right and McCain was wrong–but that was in 2003. What is he going to do today. I know and you know that Obama has a plan to extricate us from Iraq, but he did not convey that plan. Neither did McCain, but that was not his goal. Obama was trying to convey the plan and only has to cast doubt on it. McCain also has a recent success with the surge–no matter how much I think the war is idiotic, I cannot deny the surge has stabilized the region. Obama cannot deny it either, so his repsonse was to say we shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Not a winner.
Obama needed to convince me that his plan will further stabilize the region and McCain successfully cast doubt it will. Obama spent too much time on the mistakes of the past and failed to paint a positive for the future in Iraq.
Obama did better on Afghanistan and Pakistan, but McCain did manage to cast doubt on him there, too, when harkening back to Obama’s statement he would go into Pakistan. As we’ve seen in the last few weeks’with Pakistan firing on US forces, this can be a problem. Now who’s running off half-cocked? I know that Obama is not launching a war against Pakistan, but he funbled on this one.
Also, McCain scored big with Obama’s willing to talk to anyone without preconditions. Rather than sticking to his guns, he went mealy mouth with his preconditions don’t mean preparations. And Kissinger never said he would meet without preconditions and Obama shouldn’t have said he did…he looked stupid. Yes, Kissenger said he would meet with Iran, but that is not the same thing as meeting without preconditions. Obama, rather than going on the offensive with punishing people by not talking to them (lame), he was on the defensive and looked bad doing it.
Those are just a few examples.
So, if I were scoring
Debate 1
McCain 4.5, Obama 5.5
Debate 2
McCain 6, Obama 4
Total
McCain 10.5, Obama 9.5
Win to McCain–and I feel dirty saying it.
September 26th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
@Erick
Reference the Bush/Kerry debates. Since everyone expected Kerry to win, when Bush “didn’t flummox big time” - Bush won. Pre-debate expectations trump all other factors.
September 26th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
I’ve already voted, so my opinion actually doesn’t mean that much at this point. But here it is anyway …
As with most debates, people who already liked McCain will be happy, and people who already liked Obama will be happy.
I think that’s a problem for McCain.
I really, really, really don’t understand his whole campaign strategy. Attack, attack, attack is certainly what his right wing base wants him to do.
But for many moderates and Independents, isn’t that exactly what Republicans and Democrats have been doing to each other for oh, the past 15 years or so?
… and isn’t that one of the things we’d like to see changed?
Immediately post debate, some of the MSNBC talking heads were criticizing Barack Obama for starting out too many retorts by pointing out areas of “agreement” … before pointing out the differences.
Hard-core Republicans will be peeing themselves with excitement over this.
Hard-core Dems will be screaming at their tv “what are you doing!!!”
… but, more importantly, I think it will play very well with Independents.
John McCain talks a good game about being Mr. Bipartisan, and getting things done. And maybe a year or two ago that was true. But over the course of this campaign (and tonight is no exception), if really watch what each of the candidates say, and how they act, I think it’s pretty clear cut which one of them would actually be most likely to reach out to the “other side”.
… and just for clarification here, Joe Lieberman has long since stopped counting as being on the “other side”.
All along, throughout this campaign, I haven’t been too concerned about the “issues”. I’m pragmatic enough to realize that majority of what BOTH of these guys are promising is at best pure BS.
What I’m looking at, and what ultimately swayed my vote to Obama was Temperament.
… then again, I could almost be classified as a “one issue voter”.
I very much interested in electing as the next Commander in Chief, the guy who (in my opinion) is Least likely to send me on an all expense paid trip to Iran some day.
Just my three pennies,
Todd
October 6th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
[...] I know I’m tempted, but I’ll be doing another live stream, much like what I did for the first prez debate and the only veep debate. This entry was posted on Monday, October 6th, 2008 and is filed under [...]
October 6th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
[...] I’ve done with the first prez debate and the only veep debate, I’ll be “open streaming” the [...]
October 14th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
[...] Three debates down. [...]