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	<title>Comments on: Perhaps The Republicans Should Listen To People Who Managed To Win</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2008/11/14/perhaps-the-republicans-should-listen-to-people-who-managed-to-win/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/14/perhaps-the-republicans-should-listen-to-people-who-managed-to-win/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Avinash_Tyagi</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/14/perhaps-the-republicans-should-listen-to-people-who-managed-to-win/comment-page-1/#comment-424806</link>
		<dc:creator>Avinash_Tyagi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 22:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=11007#comment-424806</guid>
		<description>Problem with that reasoning is that it doesn&#039;t bode well for the future, the younger voters have less of a problem with gay amrriage and abortion, and all the things that the socio-cons have issues with, if the GOP doesn&#039;t moderate their views, they will lose in the coming decades as the older voters, die, and the younger voters move more and more to the Democratic party.  Sure right now you can get issues like Prop 8 passed, because you still have enough older americans who are opposed to Gay Marriage, but that isn&#039;t a long term strategy for the party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Problem with that reasoning is that it doesn&#8217;t bode well for the future, the younger voters have less of a problem with gay amrriage and abortion, and all the things that the socio-cons have issues with, if the GOP doesn&#8217;t moderate their views, they will lose in the coming decades as the older voters, die, and the younger voters move more and more to the Democratic party.  Sure right now you can get issues like Prop 8 passed, because you still have enough older americans who are opposed to Gay Marriage, but that isn&#8217;t a long term strategy for the party.</p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/14/perhaps-the-republicans-should-listen-to-people-who-managed-to-win/comment-page-1/#comment-424804</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=11007#comment-424804</guid>
		<description>For what it&#039;s worth the overwhelming majority of moderates voted no on prop 8, even the one&#039;s like me who are philosophically opposed to how the courts circumvented prop 22.

The amendment was carried by republican socons and democrats from the black and latino community (hint: they aren&#039;t moderates).

Opposition to equal treatment for a legal relationship is a ball and chain around the GOP&#039;s ankle.

And though it&#039;s anecdotal, I believe the same is true of the anti-abortion issues which, for the less than pure republicans like myself with whom I speak, center around the definition for personhood. Fertilization only seems to be reasonable to the fundamentalists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth the overwhelming majority of moderates voted no on prop 8, even the one&#8217;s like me who are philosophically opposed to how the courts circumvented prop 22.</p>
<p>The amendment was carried by republican socons and democrats from the black and latino community (hint: they aren&#8217;t moderates).</p>
<p>Opposition to equal treatment for a legal relationship is a ball and chain around the GOP&#8217;s ankle.</p>
<p>And though it&#8217;s anecdotal, I believe the same is true of the anti-abortion issues which, for the less than pure republicans like myself with whom I speak, center around the definition for personhood. Fertilization only seems to be reasonable to the fundamentalists.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy the Dhimmi</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/14/perhaps-the-republicans-should-listen-to-people-who-managed-to-win/comment-page-1/#comment-424796</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy the Dhimmi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=11007#comment-424796</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Framing the issue in terms like â€œunfettered accessâ€ doesnâ€™t move practical folks. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, that is true, and abortion is probably the most difficult issue facing republicans - or democrats for that matter - in terms of defining a resolute party position.  South Dakota rejected fertilization as the beginning of human personhood.  So where do you go from there?  What is the definition because it must be defined somehow.

But for all practical purposes, that is the only real &quot;social issue&quot; that divides D and R, since even closeted homosexual democrats like John Edwards reject gay marraige as a platform.  So is a nuanced view of when life begins really the only thing that plagues Republicans?  Is that why they lost the election?  No.  I don&#039;t believe that.

So when Nick says:
&lt;blockquote&gt;A more socially conservative Republican Party isnâ€™t going to accomplish anything except making the Ann Coulters of the world happy, and thatâ€™s not a recipe for electoral success.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I just think its a big red herring.  That simply cannot be the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Framing the issue in terms like â€œunfettered accessâ€ doesnâ€™t move practical folks. </p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, that is true, and abortion is probably the most difficult issue facing republicans &#8211; or democrats for that matter &#8211; in terms of defining a resolute party position.  South Dakota rejected fertilization as the beginning of human personhood.  So where do you go from there?  What is the definition because it must be defined somehow.</p>
<p>But for all practical purposes, that is the only real &#8220;social issue&#8221; that divides D and R, since even closeted homosexual democrats like John Edwards reject gay marraige as a platform.  So is a nuanced view of when life begins really the only thing that plagues Republicans?  Is that why they lost the election?  No.  I don&#8217;t believe that.</p>
<p>So when Nick says:</p>
<blockquote><p>A more socially conservative Republican Party isnâ€™t going to accomplish anything except making the Ann Coulters of the world happy, and thatâ€™s not a recipe for electoral success.</p></blockquote>
<p>I just think its a big red herring.  That simply cannot be the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/14/perhaps-the-republicans-should-listen-to-people-who-managed-to-win/comment-page-1/#comment-424795</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=11007#comment-424795</guid>
		<description>The country has finally woken up to the toxic brand of politics the Republican party engages in.  For years,  I couldn&#039;t even have a political discussion with my Republican friends because there was such a close-mindedness about the issues.  Taken further, all progressive ideas were dismissed out of hand and usually followed up by some crack about being a Socialist or not supporting the troops.  That this type of talk eventually became the foundation of the McCain campaign amazes me.  The country is tired of these empty, bullying arguments that never address the issues or solve any problems.

Sadly, Whitman, King, Collins, and Alexander will be dismissed as RINOs by the base, as opposed to having their suggestions considered.  Most Republicans just have a problem with ever admitting they are wrong.  They instead choose to blames others, like the media and ACORN.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The country has finally woken up to the toxic brand of politics the Republican party engages in.  For years,  I couldn&#8217;t even have a political discussion with my Republican friends because there was such a close-mindedness about the issues.  Taken further, all progressive ideas were dismissed out of hand and usually followed up by some crack about being a Socialist or not supporting the troops.  That this type of talk eventually became the foundation of the McCain campaign amazes me.  The country is tired of these empty, bullying arguments that never address the issues or solve any problems.</p>
<p>Sadly, Whitman, King, Collins, and Alexander will be dismissed as RINOs by the base, as opposed to having their suggestions considered.  Most Republicans just have a problem with ever admitting they are wrong.  They instead choose to blames others, like the media and ACORN.</p>
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		<title>By: kranky kritter</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/14/perhaps-the-republicans-should-listen-to-people-who-managed-to-win/comment-page-1/#comment-424794</link>
		<dc:creator>kranky kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=11007#comment-424794</guid>
		<description>I agree it&#039;s partly a style issue. The GOP has failed to explain how their policies will manifest in concrete things that regular folks find appealing.

But it&#039;s definitely not just about style. On issue after issue, polls consistently show that there&#039;s a broad middle of folks in the country who reject stiffly partisan takes. Many Americans aren&#039;t thrilled by the idea of abortion, but they don&#039;t want to force women to bear pregnancies to term if they don&#039;t want the kid, either. Framing the issue in terms like &quot;unfettered access&quot; doesn&#039;t move practical folks. They&#039;re tired of some conservatives saying that they just want a tweak here or there while other folks make it clear that they think abortion is a deep wrong that ought not to be allowed at all. No one is fooled by the people asking for inches when so many of their fellow travelers yearn for miles.

I am fairly sympatico with several conservative perspectives, especially fiscal ones. But the day I&#039;ll join forces with them will be some day AFTER they give abortion politics a rest. I don&#039;t pretend to speak for every moderate or independent on this, but I am certain I am not alone. 

I am also currently of the opinion that Ms Collins, Doug, and I are wasting every breath, pixel, and word we expend on the topic. I get the sense that conservatives are determined to head off into the wilderness with only true believers invited for the trip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree it&#8217;s partly a style issue. The GOP has failed to explain how their policies will manifest in concrete things that regular folks find appealing.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s definitely not just about style. On issue after issue, polls consistently show that there&#8217;s a broad middle of folks in the country who reject stiffly partisan takes. Many Americans aren&#8217;t thrilled by the idea of abortion, but they don&#8217;t want to force women to bear pregnancies to term if they don&#8217;t want the kid, either. Framing the issue in terms like &#8220;unfettered access&#8221; doesn&#8217;t move practical folks. They&#8217;re tired of some conservatives saying that they just want a tweak here or there while other folks make it clear that they think abortion is a deep wrong that ought not to be allowed at all. No one is fooled by the people asking for inches when so many of their fellow travelers yearn for miles.</p>
<p>I am fairly sympatico with several conservative perspectives, especially fiscal ones. But the day I&#8217;ll join forces with them will be some day AFTER they give abortion politics a rest. I don&#8217;t pretend to speak for every moderate or independent on this, but I am certain I am not alone. </p>
<p>I am also currently of the opinion that Ms Collins, Doug, and I are wasting every breath, pixel, and word we expend on the topic. I get the sense that conservatives are determined to head off into the wilderness with only true believers invited for the trip.</p>
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		<title>By: muffler</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/14/perhaps-the-republicans-should-listen-to-people-who-managed-to-win/comment-page-1/#comment-424793</link>
		<dc:creator>muffler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=11007#comment-424793</guid>
		<description>Maybe if the Republican Party realized that winning elections is the BYPRODUCT of good governing and not the goal itself then they could begin to move ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe if the Republican Party realized that winning elections is the BYPRODUCT of good governing and not the goal itself then they could begin to move ahead.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy the Dhimmi</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2008/11/14/perhaps-the-republicans-should-listen-to-people-who-managed-to-win/comment-page-1/#comment-424790</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy the Dhimmi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=11007#comment-424790</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;We need to step back and fundamentally change the way we talk about issues&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Bingo.  This is absolutely correct.  The problem is that of style, and the fact that republicans don&#039;t connect with their constituents in an emotional way.  There is no evidence that America is more supportive of gay marraige, or unfettered abortion rights - the two &quot;socially conservative&quot; issues facing this country. In fact, recent ballot initiatives prove that the contrary is true.

Once the Bush administration fades out of memory and those bad feelings subside, Republicans need to present charismatic candidates who don&#039;t look like stiff Ken-dolls or curmudgeony old men (or bimbo beauty-pageant winners).  

They need to stop getting pissy about the immorality within popular culture (which only manifest in talking points anyway) and promote rugged-individualism instead, whereby they place faith in individual families to advocate for themselves in that regard.  

There is no reason to drift leftward on political issues, as you see how the Democrats generally drift rightward when they come to power.  Free trade, welfare, gun ownership, gay marraige, ect... Obama would be considered an arch conservative if he ran for office in Europe.  He won the election on cutting taxes!  

Its all about timing and packaging, and thats what Obama proved in this election.  He didn&#039;t win on issues, he won on &lt;em&gt;hope&lt;/em&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>We need to step back and fundamentally change the way we talk about issues</p></blockquote>
<p>Bingo.  This is absolutely correct.  The problem is that of style, and the fact that republicans don&#8217;t connect with their constituents in an emotional way.  There is no evidence that America is more supportive of gay marraige, or unfettered abortion rights &#8211; the two &#8220;socially conservative&#8221; issues facing this country. In fact, recent ballot initiatives prove that the contrary is true.</p>
<p>Once the Bush administration fades out of memory and those bad feelings subside, Republicans need to present charismatic candidates who don&#8217;t look like stiff Ken-dolls or curmudgeony old men (or bimbo beauty-pageant winners).  </p>
<p>They need to stop getting pissy about the immorality within popular culture (which only manifest in talking points anyway) and promote rugged-individualism instead, whereby they place faith in individual families to advocate for themselves in that regard.  </p>
<p>There is no reason to drift leftward on political issues, as you see how the Democrats generally drift rightward when they come to power.  Free trade, welfare, gun ownership, gay marraige, ect&#8230; Obama would be considered an arch conservative if he ran for office in Europe.  He won the election on cutting taxes!  </p>
<p>Its all about timing and packaging, and thats what Obama proved in this election.  He didn&#8217;t win on issues, he won on <em>hope</em>.</p>
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