Dems Promoting Limbaugh as GOP Leader

By Alan Stewart Carl | Related entries in Conservatism, Democrats, Media, Republicans

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I’m no fan of Rush Limbaugh. I find him neither elucidating nor entertaining — even on occasions when I agree with him. But he is quite popular with a core group and is increasingly powerful within the Republican party. What’s behind this expanding power? Would you believe the Democrats are?

Apparently, Democratic strategists, inside and outside the White House, have decided there’s no better way to marginalize the Republican party than by purposefully promoting Limbaugh as the heart and soul of the GOP. And Limbaugh is happy to play along.

“The Administration is enabling me,” he wrote in an email to POLITICO. “They are expanding my profile, expanding my audience and expanding my influence. An ever larger number of people are now being exposed to the antidote to Obamaism: conservatism, as articulated by me. An ever larger number of people are now exposed to substantive warnings, analysis and criticism of Obama’s policies and intentions, a ‘story’ I own because the [mainstream media] is largely the Obama Press Office.”

The bigger, the better, agreed Democrat James Carville. “It’s great for us, great for him, great for the press,” he said of Limbaugh. “The only people he’s not good for are the actual Republicans in Congress.”

Remember those dark days for Democrats just a few years ago when controversial characters like Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan became symbols of the liberal movement? Certain portions of the base loved it. The rest of American turned away.

Limbaugh could very well have the same effect on the conservative movement. And here’s why — like the Michael Moore of the Bush era, Limbaugh seems to be actively rooting against America. That’s not to say he’s anti-American (or that Moore is/was either), just that he’s so vituperative in his critique of the current administration that his words can easily be turned against him and the right in general.

Politically speaking, Democrats are smart to play up Limbaugh’s influence within the Republican party. But they don’t want to overplay it. If Obama’s early economic initiatives fail or if he mishandles an unforeseen foreign crisis, Limbaugh has the rhetorical power to whip American resentment into real anger. The more prominent he is, the more damaging to the Democrats he could be.

But for now, while Democrats are safely in power and Republicans flop like fish on the shore, Limbaugh is a liability to Republicans. Conservatives need a leader with ideas, not just negativism. Of course, if that person shows up, don’t look for Democrats to give him or her any free publicity.


This entry was posted on Thursday, March 5th, 2009 and is filed under Conservatism, Democrats, Media, Republicans. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

46 Responses to “Dems Promoting Limbaugh as GOP Leader”

  1. kranky kritter Says:

    Only one phrase describes this current dynamic: high comedy.

    The choice it leaves the GOP is to try to distance themselves from Limbaugh or to get into line.

    If Obama’s early economic initiatives fail or if he mishandles an unforeseen foreign crisis, Limbaugh has the rhetorical power to whip American resentment into real anger.

    It will be interesting to see how much rope the public grants Obama. Presuming the economy bottoms out and stabilizes, rebounding only slowly, I think Obama gets the public mulligan. Why? I see a crisis driven by Wall ST’s granting of easy credit to bad borrowers and the subsequent fraudulent dumping of extremely risky investments. That was done under the guise of AAA investment grade ratings now shown to be pathetically off base. Wall St can’t blame anyone else for the fact that no one will trust them for the next 2 decades. So I don’t see any imminent resurgence in popularity for decreased regulation and the government getting out of the way and letting free markets work. Trust in markets is a SELL, not a BUY.

    If the many negative economic ripples continue to cascade and we see the same 90% reduction in the market that we saw around 1930, not even Obama will be able to escape blame. But even if Hooverish circumstances make Obama an eager 1-termer, there’s little guarantee that the GOP benefits.

    The GOP seems to be trying pretty hard right now to get people to focus on how the democrats are cynically promoting Limbaugh as a way to turn attention away from the GOP’s own conundrum. But I don’t see it working. The GOP has to either tell folks where and why Limbaugh is wrong, or stand with him. This is what a populist ideologue in full blossom looks like.

    I sure hope that his tide doesn’t crest too high, though. I don’t want to be left hoping that the country can only be saved if this porcine type-A ranter drops dead from a blown gasket. My mileage is that I’d much rather that Limbaugh lives to see homosexuality routinely accepted and a national healthcare plan.

    Both Limbaugh and the GOP are eager to explain why the democrats are wrong about everything they are doing right now. But they have a huge problem trying to claim that they were right.

  2. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    Yeah! Pay no attention to your disappearing life savings and the collapsing economy, America! Look at Rush Limbaugh! Look at him! He’s saying something!

    What? You say the Dow is down 300 more points today? Well, what about about Michael Steele? Let’s talk about him for a while, because republicans control nothing and democrats only control the white house & both houses of congress!

    And then there’s Ann Coulter! Isn’t she awful?!?

    Thank God America has the democratic party to keep us focused on ‘real’ issues… Whew!

  3. michael reynolds Says:

    Snoop:

    I think you need to apologize to Rush for suggesting he’s somehow unimportant.

  4. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    Sure thing. Right after democrats apologize for destroying my daughter’s future.

    *waiting…*

  5. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    Note from Krunchy Krispy Kritter’s dreams of retirement: “Bye!”

  6. gljunket Says:

    Limbaugh AND the GOP are pathetic…….and irrelevant, except to a perverse media and their “talking heads.” They all abdicated leadership to the socialist leaning masses, and Obamamania was a “perfect storm” to benefit a corrupt Democratic Congress. Carvillites are just savvy enough marketers to use Rush to keep the “negativist” GOP “base” pinned to the mat.

    My question is, who is “Wall Street” that you’re blaming for “driving the crisis” (Kranky)? Is it the “trading floor?” The agents/brokers? They just do their jobs. Do I resent the megabuck bonuses during the crash? Yes. But I worry a lot more about the trillabucks evaporating into decades of national debt….BOTH Republican AND Democrat! Meanwhile, the real problem is the private investors who have been so burned by Government meddling in the free market, they can no longer look to Wall Street as an investment. How can anyone blame them?

    Focused on the “real issues” (Snoop Dawg)? With what? Fake Government dollars? Redistribute the wealth? Looks more like eliminate the wealth to me. How long can it last, with no incentive? There is no light at the end of this tunnel.

  7. kranky kritter Says:

    Snoop, current democratic spending levels notwithstanding, I expect there will be plenty of blame to go round should things fail to recover. I’ll go ahead and grant that democrats foolishly pushed for the expansion of access to home ownership beyond the bounds of what creditworthiness ought to have allowed. But what about the actual routine issuance of big loans to people who couldn’t afford them? That came about primarily becuase Wall Street found a way to fraudulently offload the risk for these bad loans with paper that was bogusly rated AAA.

    That noose hangs squarely round Wall St for its exploitative actions in an unregulated market that the GOP blithely encouraged. That’s what led to the RE market collapse and the credit market failure. Going forward, you’ll have an extremely hard time convincing me (and most other folks) that the lasting negative effects of all this can simply be blamed on current gov’t spending.

    I’m going to insist on blaming the hole on the people who dug it even if the first folks who take a crack at filling it fail to do so in a timely fashion. You do what you want, but that’s my bias.

  8. ExiledIndependent Says:

    Honestly, the “Republican party” as it exists today needs to disappear, and Steele’s “copy the Dems” approach isn’t going to do it. Ideas of small government, spending less than the government takes in, having a strong national defense (but NOT engaging in meaningless folly abroad), reducing government involvement in our lines (I’m talking to YOU, Patriot Act), etc. are all excellent ideas that can do wonders for our nation. Allowing the free market to flourish while ensuring that no company becomes so big or powerful as to threaten the financial stability of the nation (that means using healthy competition to prevent the AIGs of the world from sprouting up). You get the idea. These ideas were certainly NOT exemplified by neither Bush nor McCain–both Republicans.

    No, these aren’t the ideas of the current Republican party. The current GOP is basically Dems who love big business. So if Rush is causing short-term damage to the Republicans so we can get a better crop of lawmakers, fine by me.

  9. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    That came about primarily becuase Wall Street found a way to fraudulently offload the risk for these bad loans with paper that was bogusly rated AAA.

    I’m not suggesting Wall Street is blameless, but they never would have had the opportunity to make reckless loans had the Fed not surpressed interest rates by flooding the banks with fake dollars.

    Calling Wall Street “greedy” is meaningless. We’re all greedy. If a 100$ bill blew across the sidewalk would you pick it up? Of course you would. So would I. And so did Wall Street. Except theirs was a trillion-dollar bill.

    And the travesty is that it continues today with AIG getting bailed out for the 4th time. And when tomorrow’s unemployment figures come out, you’re going to see the Dow tank another 500 points (if we’re lucky).

    This mess is not fundamentally Obama’s fault. But with all due respect, he knows NOTHING about economics. And he’s throwing more fuel on the fire because his dunce of a Treasury Secretary is telling him to.

    You seem to want to win a political argument. I want to save my children’s future.

  10. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    And people like ExiledIndependent are exactly what I’m talking about.

    Rome is burning and all you want to do is defeat your imaginary arch-nemesis Rush Limbaugh. You don’t like Limbaugh? Who the hell cares? I think Randy Rhoades is a deranged lunatic. But both of those sentiments are nothing but distractions.

    And fair or not, when this house of cards comes down, it’s going to have “Obama” stamped all over it. 9/11 will always be Bush’s fault & this diaster will be Barack’s.

  11. michael reynolds Says:

    Snoop:

    Here’s a thought: how about we give Obama more than six weeks to clean up the sh-t pile Mr. Bush handed off to him?

    Where the hell were people like you when Mr. Bush was spending an off-budget trillion in Iraq? Where were you when Greenspan was passing off his jejeune Ayn Rand as oracular wisdom? Were you upset that Mr. Gramm — the man McCain was considering as Treasury Secretary — effectively deregulated banks? Were you crying about your daughter’s future when the GOP pushed its quasi-religious faith in all thinks private market and attacked all things governmental?

    Sorry if it’s taking us some time to clean up after the Republican fiasco. Yeah, it’s kind of expensive fixing this mess. Too bad we don’t have the surplus Mr. Clinton bequeathed to Mr. Bush, that might come in kinda handy right about now.

    You have a daughter. I have a son and a daughter. I’m worried too. Which is why I’m hoping to hell that we can fix this unholy mess.

  12. ExiledIndependent Says:

    Snoop, you misunderstand. Any short-term negative impact that Rush might have on the GOP will likely result in a stronger party, long-term, that is built on real ideas. I see Rush calling Republicans out for abandoning what drew people to the party in the first place. Clear out the dead wood.

  13. kranky kritter Says:

    Snoop, I didn’t call Wall St greedy. We both know it’s true of wall street but not an especially useful insight beyond noticing that Wall St manifests some of the worse aspects of basic human nature that all of us are stuck with.

    Though Obama is decidedly not an expert economist, the expert economists themselves seem to lack much by way of any insight into curing our current ills beyond letting the sick die and the rest suffer, and hoping that enough strong survive to undertake a reprise at some undetermined future point.

    Glib but accurate analogically. For better or worse, our government and the people that elect it tend not to trust or elect those who encourage a laissez faire approach when times are especially grim. Instead they favor action. That’s another aspect of human nature we’re all stuck with.

    I’m not all that interested in winning an argument. In fact, I’ve pointed out several times here and elsewhere that only a fantasist would hope that the government’s current levels of deficit spending are sustainable for more than 2 or 3 years without serious rippling consequences like currency devaluation. IOW, I get it.

    Nevertheless, I think a sane person would concede that it’s at least possible that a really big uptick in gov’t spending for a few years is one of the few possible actual actions that might stem the kind of singular economic freefall we’re experiencing right now.

    So in principle, I am not opposed to a jack up in gov’t spending for lets say 2008, 2009, and 2010 or thereabouts. But I don’t believe that the majority of the spending we have seen so far has exhibited much wisdom, and I regret the ready, fire, aim nature of it. Undoubtedly we’ll all pay for it, no doubt.

    Yet I find the “mortgage our children’s future” rhetoric to be a little bit over the top. Everyone who buys a house and pours assets into its repairs “mortgages their children’s future” in some very real sense. This is done to put a roof over your kids head, and such lifestyle expenditures may indeed leave any given parent less able to provide for their child’s future needs and wants.

    IOW, it’s quite possible that gov’t inaction could leave many kids without any sort of viable future or with a less viable future. Better a mortgaged future than no future. Sadly, none of has a crystal ball. I accuse all of us of guessing. I look askance at anyone who feels SURE that this uptick in gov’t spending is not neccessary.

  14. Alteran1 Says:

    I think its laughable to say its the Democrats who have been setting Limbaugh up as the leader of the Republican Party. All they’re doing is exposing the Republican Party for what it is, the pet of Rush Limbaugh. No he’s not actually the leader of the Republican Party, but effectively he is because he has so much power over the republican base. Thats why Republicans like Michael Steele have to apologize and grovel at his feet after dissing him; he can quickly and easily turn Republican sentiment against them and ruin their careers. Rush Limbaugh, along with Sean Hannity and Bill O’Reilly, are the voices that many republicans listen and hold to be gospel. They think these guys are basically the greatest people in the world to ever have lived. I know, I’ve heard friends of mine that are Republican say it all the time and have seen it on conservative blogs and forums.

    The Democrats are just pointing out something that is already widely known, and I think beneficial to both parties for it to be better known. By exposing Limbaugh as the fear-mongering, xenophobic, repugnant little man that he is, It shows where the Republican party steered off of its course. Today’s republican party is nothing like what it used to be and I’ll have no part of it. They’ve abandoned their true conservative values for War-mongering, Fear, Hatred, and religious fundamentalism. It worked for the republicans for a while, to get all the Fundamental Christian voters, but people are waking up, the fundamental christian movement is dying, and they established themselves as a outdated evil regime that has no place in the future of America. And Limbaugh will die with them. And we’ll never have just one party, so don’t freak out or anything. All that will happen is we will either end up with a three-party or multi-party system, or the current incarnation of the Republicans will die and be replaced with a new Republican party that stands for true conservative principles and fixing the country instead of pursuing their Orwellian police state fantasies and trying to ruin the lives of the gays.

  15. SaneInSF Says:

    Hilarious. Rush (and I’m no fan) just called out Obama to debate him since they’re trying to make him the face of the Republican Party.

  16. Alistair Says:

    I think you better be prepared of a major civil war within the conservative movement when you have David Frum and Mark Levin, who worships Limbaugh arguing the direction of where the Republican Party should go.

    http://citadelcc.vo.llnwd.net/o29/network/Levin/MP3/ShowAudio/LEVINVSFRUM030409.mp3

  17. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    …how about we give Obama more than six weeks to clean up the sh-t pile Mr. Bush handed off to him? Because he’s doing absolutely everything wrong he could possibly do. Recessions are not the problem; they’re the cure. They’re no fun to go through, but neither is chemo-therapy. Sometimes both are necessary.

    When an economy is inflated with free cash by the Fed to supress higher interest rates, bubbles are created, and they invariably crash (anyone remember dot.com? Enron? Housing?). If you’d like to see this happen live, keep an eye on the bond market.

    Where the hell were people like you when Mr. Bush was spending an off-budget trillion in Iraq?

    I was in Iraq. And Bush’s spending was one of the biggest disagreements conservatives ever had with him. I appreciate that liberals we’ren’t paying attention, but conservatives were screaming about his bailouts.

    And bailouts never work. Bush’s clearly didn’t work, and we can see the effect of Obama’s bailouts: utter failure.

    You want proof? Watch the Dow today; the markets speak truth better than any politician ever did.

    The dollar is being destroyed by deliberate inflation of trillions of fake dollars. The middle class and working poor, whom democrats always pretend to care so much about, will be decimated by this fiscal policy.

  18. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    And Alteran1, no masturbating in public please. Momma says you should save that for “private time”.

  19. kranky kritter Says:

    The comedy continues. I caught some O’Reilly last night while cooking late dinner just to get some chuckles over the blatant spinning and the red faces.

    It’s hilarious to me to see the GOP try to turn this into an issue of what the democrats ought to be doing. The obvious elephant in the room is “who exactly is twisting the arms of folks and making them talk about it.”

    The GOP needs to get its house in order. Right now its a circular firing squad. Hard to blame the democrats for saying “look at these clowns.”

    And I say that as someone who is very much in agreement with many (but not all) of the criticisms that the GOP is fielding in regard to the new admin’s actions. THe GOP needs to field positive viable alternatives that don’t sound like a recycling of talking points whose expiration date has expired. And they need to target areas of agreement for progress, for the sake of the country, and for the sake of showing current circumstances dictate a racketing down of rhetoric.

  20. kranky kritter Says:

    When an economy is inflated with free cash by the Fed to supress higher interest rates, bubbles are created, and they invariably crash (anyone remember dot.com? Enron? Housing?). If you’d like to see this happen live, keep an eye on the bond market.

    So when an economy deflates, the only alternative is to let it collapse to whatever point it must, and hope that it will begin reinflating? That’s not economics, that’s religion, my amigo. Blind faith.

    And bailouts never work. Bush’s clearly didn’t work, and we can see the effect of Obama’s bailouts: utter failure.

    Yeah, that’s another article of faith. Rational people know such things are extraordinarily difficult to measure. Too many variables. Now, if we had two separate identical worlds and could try both the alleged medication and the no treatment option, then we would know. But instead, we’re stuck guessing.

    Of course, such a PoV is always anathema to the faithful.

  21. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    The comedy continues.
    Employers cut 651,000 jobs in February…job losses over the last six months to more than 3.3 million…unemployment at 8.1%, the highest in 25 years…Dow is down 3,000 points in 6 weeks…
    Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Rush Limbaugh! Rush Limbaugh! Look at him!
    F*ck your future, America! Michael Steele! Ann Coulter! Ann Coulter!

    Aren’t you glad we’re in charge now?!? See how mature & responsible democrats are? Yea!

    THe GOP needs to field positive viable alternatives…
    1. Stop rewarding irresponsible, incompetent behavior. Let the failures in this economy…FAIL. They deserve to. There’s no better teacher in life, than failure.
    2. Stop inflating the economy with printing presses like every president since LBJ.
    3. Put rediculous mythologies like anthropogenic global warming on hold until we get the economy back on line. Then you can re-destroy it with trillions of wasted effort against a myth.
    4. Let GM fail, go into bankruptcy (remember Chrysler?), restructure and come back stronger.
    5. Encourage capital investment in America, so we can create real jobs & start actually making things again.

  22. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    So when an economy deflates, the only alternative is to let it collapse to whatever point it must…

    Precisely, my dear. The economy doesn’t need your faith or intervention. It’s science, not art. Your desire to interfere with natural economic ebbs & tides is perfectly analogous to the 18th century introduction of new species into non-indigenous habitats. The results were & are, always disastrous.

    When bubbles burst, they do so because stocks are over-valued. Their fall is necessary and natural, back to the inherent and *real* value they have.

    Flooding the market with cash does nothing but encourage more bubbles, repeating the disaster, but this time on a much larger scale.

    That’s not economics, that’s religion, my amigo. Blind faith.

    False. Remaining completely ignorant of macro economics and hoping things will get better is religion. That’s blind faith.

    Here, I’ll even offer you a left-leaning, AGW-believing Harvard economist who nonetheless ‘gets it’.
    http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/

  23. michael reynolds Says:

    Snoop:

    So, I’ll ask again: where were you for the last eight years?

    Or did you suddenly discover your true faith only when a Democrat came into office?

    How much did you howl when we spent an off-budget trillion in Iraq?

  24. kranky kritter Says:

    Precisely, my dear. The economy doesn’t need your faith or intervention. It’s science, not art.

    I really should leave such foolishness to stand on its own.

    But I edit math books and I have a Master’s degree in critical thinking. So I know what science is, and am morally required to such suspect claims. economics is every bit as much art and faith and opinion as it is science. If this were not true, then all the brilliant economic scientists would have predicted this collapse.

    I don’t say any of this to slag economics as a discipline. Only to try to temper the hubris of its most foolish defenders. For all the math and research underlying economics, it remains a discipline that is much better at using its various competing theories to explain the past than to predict the future. The vast majority of honest and able practitioners of economics would be horrified by the claim that economics is science and NOT art. They’d be even MORE horrified by any contention that an economy does not need our faith. Unless you want to argue that a modern economy doesn’t need, for example, currency.

    Further, it could well be argued that whether or not the economy needs our faith or intervention, the suffering masses demonstrably do. But that’s the weak point of my argument, so try not to dwell on it to much. I know a counterargument to the last part can be ably constructed by the motivated.

    I’d like to see you back the claim the economics is not part art, and that a modern economy can operate without human faith. In return, I promise not to mop up too much of the floor with you. :-)

  25. michael reynolds Says:

    KK:

    I’ve noticed a sudden proliferation of economic geniuses like Snoop, all pulling their Santelli routines, ranting and raving. And yet, somehow there were far fewer of these people around during the years we were digging this hole. Maybe we’re discovering a new rule in the “science” of economics: hard times increase the supply of after-the-fact prophets. Economic Nostradummies.

  26. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    Michael Reynolds, pls see my comment at 7:36am.

  27. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    If this were not true, then all the brilliant economic scientists would have predicted this collapse.
    All the brilliant ones did, darling. Maybe you were editing a differential equation or watching Desperate Housewives at the time?

    The vast majority of honest and able practitioners of economics would be horrified by the claim that economics is science and NOT art.
    The ones who get B.A.s in Economics and teach it at junior colleges, perhaps. The ones who get B.S.s in Economics and ‘called’ this disaster 15 years ago understand the science. And no, they’re not horrified, Horrified, HORRIFIED!!!

    I’ll concede that faith is required if you live in a society with a fiat currency like ours. But SANE countries have their currency backed with assets. We used to do that actually, believe it or not.

    The only thing our nation’s working poor NEED is for their government to stop debasing the value of what few dollars they have, so they can actually feed their families. Evertime government ‘touches’ the working poor, all they do is get poorer.

  28. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    Oooh…darn, the Dow’s down 83 more points…wha-happah?

    Bye America!

  29. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    I mean, hey China! Buy America! Literally!!!

    It’s a f*cking fire sale!

  30. kranky kritter Says:

    So then Snoop, I’m mystified. If all the brilliant economists predicted this, then presumedly as a true believer you heeded them and placed all your money on insurance against the collapse of CDOs and made billions of dollars just like that guy on CNBC’s house of cards.

    And by short-selling against the more-than-halving of the stock market that ALL the brilliant economists foresaw and managed to keep mum about.

    So why all that worry about your daughter’s future? Surely you profited handsomely enough for your empire to ride comfortably for several generations, no?

    BTW, it kind looks like the US gov’t IS moving towards asset-backing, if the recent acquistions are any judge. :-) Maybe you’ll get your wish, for all the wrong reasons.

  31. SaneInSF Says:

    Wonder if anyone actually watched his presentation. Even though i’m not a fan — it’s a pretty impressive speech that certainly calls out the Administration.

    The transcript is here:

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/03/obama-limbaugh.html

  32. michael reynolds Says:

    Snoop:

    You didn’t answer anything in the referenced comment. You said you were in Iraq, and you denounced bailouts, and you claimed — falsely — that conservatives attacked Bush’s spending in Iraq.

    In fact, the entire comment is just you throwing dust in the air.

    You’re just another partisan regurgitating dishonest talking points. Witness your absurd attempt to pin this shit storm on Geithner in another thread. It’s Geithner’s fault we bailed out Bear? Was that not Paulson on his knees begging for the money? Was that not Mr. Bush’s term of office.

    You’re a fraud. Just another partisan loudmouth regurgitating partisan talking points.

  33. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    …presumedly as a true believer you heeded them and placed all your money on insurance against the collapse…

    Not all of it. I put about 25% in oil futures when it bottomed out and 25% in precious metals.

    So why all that worry about your daughter’s future?

    Krispy Kritter, what is it that you think is going to happen when the dollar collapses? Life will just go on as normal, editing math books & thinking critical thoughts?

    We’re looking at years of civil unrest and hyper-inflation. Our paychecks, paid in dollars, are going to be worthless. How do I save for a child’s furture with a totally debased currency?

    Is that NOTHING to you?

    BTW, it kind looks like the US gov’t IS moving towards asset-backing, if the recent acquistions are any judge.
    Sweetheart, backing a currency with foreclosed houses in a depression doesn’t work. I’d explain it, but by the time I finished I’d have to award you a B.S. in Economics.

  34. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    …you claimed — falsely — that conservatives attacked Bush’s spending in Iraq. Mike, you’d have to actually read and listem to conservative commentators to have witnessed it.

    You miss that kind of thing living inside the DailyKos echo chamber.

    And ‘yes’, Big Mike, I’m a big bad partisan because I have opinions, unlike you. I love how liberals always think they’re so open-minded and they’re all genious math book editors like Hillary Clinton.

    You’re a fraud.

    Uhhg!!! You got me…right through the heart…
    …conservatism dying….getting dark….can’t hear…Mike…has smote the great Snoop…

  35. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    Ok, ok. I’ll cut you crazy kids loose so nobody wets their pants on a Friday. Have fun.

  36. Justin Gardner Says:

    I love how conservatives are saying how crazy awful things are going to be without any proof.

    Let’s remember that inflation didn’t exactly go through the rough when Reagan quadrupled the debt in the 80s. But somehow, when prices are actually dropping right now, we’re going to have crazy hyperinflation. Yeah, sure.

    And what they’re also ignoring is that EVERYBODY’S economy is going down the toilet and nearly every single one of them is printing or borrowing more to make up the difference. So what better time to spend then when everybody else is doing it? Anybody remember what happened during WWII? Did countries spend money they didn’t have?

    But hey, keep believing that the deficit is the most important thing when we’re hitting unemployment numbers we haven’t seen in nearly 3 decades.

    Friedman, out!

  37. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    Ok Justin,  Krispy Kritter, Mike, et al, please put down your partisan swords for a minute because you REALLY need to understand some basics of economics before addressing these issues in public.  Let’s put on our learning caps.Definitions:Inflation is an increase in the money supply, and NOTHING MORE.  Sometimes it occurs naturally, and sometimes it is manipulated by government.Inflation is NOT higher prices, nor is it higher interest rates.  Higher prices and higher interest rates are the RESULT of inflation, not the CAUSE.  In other words, they’re symptomatic of inflation, not causal.When the Fed gives 500 billion to the FDIC, 50 billion to AIG, and billions to other banks, the banks seek out people and institutions to lend it to.  And it’s lent out at artificially LOW rates.  Why?  Because the government GAVE it to them; it didn’t cost the bank ANYTHING.  This is how interest rates are artificially suppressed.  When banks loan out their OWN hard-earned money, it’s NEVER at these low rates.Increasing prices are a NATURAL reaction to an INCREASED money supply: there’s more money sloshing around the economy, so businesses increase prices to get as much of it as they can.  And when interest rates are not suppressed, they natually INCREASE in reaction to greater money supply for the SAME reason:  Lenders see more money sloshing around, so they increase loan rates to scoop up as much as they can.  So when there’s too much money in the economy, higher prices and higher interest rates soak it back up, putting the economy back in balance.Conversely, when too much money is taken OUT of the economy, businesses and banks lower prices and interest rates because they still want to sell their products and services.These dynamics are natural and normal.  They ebb & flow, keeping one another in check.  It’s a good thing.Here’s where it gets ugly: everybody loves it when there’s lots of money and hates it when there’s not enough.  So when an excess of money and prices & interest rates start to go up, everybody panics, because they know the money supply is beginning to dry up.  Politicians HATE recessions, so what do the do?  They squash the rising interest rates by turning on the printing presses and flooding banks with more free cash, who lend it out at low rates because it’s FREE MONEY.But as we just saw, this new glut of cash only causes more inflation.But Justin asks, “Then why aren’t prices going up?”  Prices aren’t going up, because for the last 20 years the way the government floods the economy with cash is to sell trillions in T-bills to foreign governemnts, like China & Saudi.If this went on forever, it would be great!  But the thing is, these foreign countries, who own trillion in U.S. debt are realizing the U.S. will NEVER be able to honor the T-bills it sold.  They’re going to stop funding our debt.  And when they do, all those dollars are going to come flooding back to our shores, collapsing the dollar.We can’t just print money out of thin air forever.  This is NOT a partisan argument, as you would like to have it.  I don’t care about your messiah Obama.  Love him all you want.  There’s not a bit of difference between him & Bush, or Clinton or Reagan.  But he’s leading us on an accelerating path to economic DISASTER, and forgive me, I don’t want that for my country, democrats or republicans.Watch this video & more like it.  It’s free education.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9MW5NfZaDk

  38. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    Anybody remember WWII?  Did countries spend money they didn’t have?

    Yes they did, Justin.  One of them, Great Britain, bankrupted herself in the process, losing world power status.  Until WWII, the pound sterling was the world’s reserve currency.  But once it was over, it collapsed, and the dollar became the reserve currency.

    Now the same thing is about to happen to the dollar.

  39. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg Says:

    Anybody remember WWII? Did countries spend money they didn’t have?

    Yes they did, Justin. One of them, Great Britain, bankrupted herself in the process, losing world power status. Until WWII, the pound sterling was the world’s reserve currency. But once it was over, it collapsed, and the dollar became the reserve currency.

    Now the same thing is about to happen to the dollar.

  40. Anthony Venuti Says:

    Obama Era….errr – - – The Obama Error 2008-2012

    …The Italian guy here.

    The White population of America, you WASPs and other Anglo’s .. are a bunch of chumps….generally speaking.

    The wool is being pulled over your eyes, and your not scratching, your buying everything hook, line, and sinker…

    You are driven by celebrity, affected by victims, expect others to be the root of your pleasure and happiness…..Well now with the promise of a simple answer and hopes of pleasure you now you have YOUR leader…

    with the help of the MediaCrats, like the children that found daddy’s liquor cabinet in their giddyness like approach to nonewstainment, …forget INFOtainment….what info…crap better suited for those who like CRAP…. we have the NoNewstainment. But for others like Rush, Thank God, for Rush…..

    Your misplaced guilt for the one of many in the evolution of mankind, abominations of civilization, slavery have blinded most of you.

    Guilt misplaced….Give yourselves SOME credit…Look at all of the Black/Negro professionals athletes and media stars….where would they have been without that abomination slavery…..think about it…..I know it hurts…but still…
    African leaders THEMSELVES are co-conspirators of this abomination called Slavery.
    Again, think about it….give yourself some credit…..If those poor souls, the true victims, if they were to come back to witness first hand, the 2 minute time clock of the Super Bowl or the NBA Championship watching one of their own, 10 score past, make the grade…what do you think there thoughts might be?
    ….. I will tell you what great, super great granddad would say…dig this….
    …..would be….hey baby, if it wasn’t for us, you would not be here…now give me some of that cha ching/signing bounus just received……..bingo…so…what is message here…the message is simple

    Open your eyes “White America”….it is inability to face these questions and to talk about the bitterness we all feel from both sides of the racial issue.

    The racial issue is simple…I’m more concerned with Human Relations we are all failing at…and in this “Error of Obama” notwithstanding, we are risk of losing the very nation that we struggled to become…overnight…..and we did it to ourselves….wake up…

    Beyondpuke indeed.

    beyondpuke.com

    The Diffusion of Innovation…google it…you will be amazed and educated as you are entertained with REAL info on life as we know it today.

  41. Anthony Venuti Says:

    Education here ….Rush, is a Social Philosopher/Entertainer/Businessman..

    Period!

    He is probably more fascinated with his own “stciicck!” present spike in controversy, not withstanding, he is no more than that…If all of you and media wish to place him where he will only benefit financially from…I’m sure he is getting quite the kick.

    Read Machiavelli….google it, take a moment…as I this Italian Ex-Con Newspaper Publisher who has never been “given” a break…let me as a “Experiential Social Philospher” might suggest…

    “Bring it!…don’t Sing it!..” Rush is simply calling it as it is, as he does understand the ways of man and the inhumantity of man towards man…that simple..

    Lighten up, take responsibility…it isn’t our fault that you now have the best life otherwise ..if it wasn’t for America…

    Celebrate with an Attitude of Gratitude!

  42. michael reynolds Says:

    Snoop:

    Thanks for your tacit admission that I was right about you. Saves time.

  43. michael reynolds Says:

    Snoop:

    Actually the dollar is higher against the Euro than it was when I was living in Italy a few months ago. It’s under a 1.30. I was paying 1.60. If I were still there I’d be throwing a party and celebrating the dollar’s strength. Cheap gelato!

  44. Mike A. Says:

    “The economy doesn’t need your faith or intervention. It’s science, not art. ”

    Love it. Snoops been reading Asimov’s Foundation Trilogy!

  45. PAGO Says:

    Snoop — economics is a science, but human activity affecting climate change is a ridiculous mythology? Ivy-league educated economists stand diametrically opposed on how to fix the economic mess we’re in, yet the scientific community stands in unison behind the theory that human activity has induced global climate change. Can’t figure out where you’re coming from with statements like that — not to mention that your approach to commenting on this site is totally contrary to the spirit of what this site is supposed to be all about (and that’s not to say that there aren’t lefty partisans here doing it too — I just don’t get why any of you are even on this site).

    Let’s face it – ideas about the best way to “fix” the economy depend to a fair extent on what you believe the economy should look like when it is “fixed” — generally Republicans and Democrats do not share a common vision here. That being said, I think most rational people would agree that, as in their personal lives, they want the people of this country to have access to gainful employment and not have the country be neck-deep in debt. I didn’t like a bunch of items in the stimulus, but I did like others. Will it work? I sure as hell don’t know for sure, and I know that there aren’t any honest economists out there who would say they know for sure. Forecasting macro-economic conditions is an incredibly difficult thing to do, not least so because it hinges on the variables of crooked politics along with the good old human tendencies fo greed and deceit.

    If only economics were a science, then maybe the economic world could stand in unison and tell us how to get out of this mess, based on objective assessment of measurable data — you know, like the IPCC is doing regarding climate change.

  46. kranky kritter Says:

    Snoop:

    Most important point #1: if you want folks to read a multi-100 word rant, you need to master the paragraph break. Seriously. Dude!

    But the thing is, these foreign countries, who own trillion in U.S. debt are realizing the U.S. will NEVER be able to honor the T-bills it sold. They’re going to stop funding our debt. And when they do, all those dollars are going to come flooding back to our shores, collapsing the dollar.We can’t just print money out of thin air forever. This is NOT a partisan argument, as you would like to have it.

    Since I’ve pointed out this basic dynamic of economics on multiple occasions, you really ought to get off the partisan name-calling horse round here. You’re just embarassing yourself.

    I’m pretty concerned about what the massive levels of new spending will do. But at this point, it is pretty clear that neither China nor anyone else has figured out exactly how to extricate themselves from their current circumstances. Until someone else establishes a new safe-haven reserve currency, we have some time and insulation. That means that it is not entirely unreasonable to hope that, if the US can swallow a 2 or 3 year massive debt hike and then return back to historical levels of budget debt, China and everyone else will respond with not too much else besides a reluctant “I guess it’s OK.”

    That very well might not be what happens, but frankly, your certainty is comical. The US has never defaulted before. Paid off using dollars of which there were more than there were before when the bills were issued? Sure. Obviously not a great idea, and just as obviously we’re treading dangerous ground. But since our currency is based on faith, it’s going to sink or swim on that, too, not just print production.

    There’s that word again…faith. If there are 100 dollars in the world worth a certain amount, and then you print 20 more, and for whatever reason the world thinks all of the 120 dollars have the same value EACH as the 100 dollars had before, then there IS no inflation.

    You keep insisting that only what we do matters for economics, and that how we feel has nothing to do with anything. BUt only a fool of an economist would dismiss the subjective and imaginary components of economic value.

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