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	<title>Comments on: Seasteading: Libertarians Taking To The Sea For Fun And Freedom</title>
	<atom:link href="http://donklephant.com/2009/06/09/seasteading-libertarians-taking-to-the-sea-for-fun-and-freedom/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/06/09/seasteading-libertarians-taking-to-the-sea-for-fun-and-freedom/</link>
	<description>Big Teeth. Huge Ass. Surprisingly Reasonable.</description>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/06/09/seasteading-libertarians-taking-to-the-sea-for-fun-and-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-483024</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15116#comment-483024</guid>
		<description>I mean not only do i have problems with the logistics and realities of the idea, I have a problem with their ideals.  If they want a country with no taxes, no laws, etc, why don&#039;t they just move to somalia?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mean not only do i have problems with the logistics and realities of the idea, I have a problem with their ideals.  If they want a country with no taxes, no laws, etc, why don&#8217;t they just move to somalia?</p>
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		<title>By: kranky kritter</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/06/09/seasteading-libertarians-taking-to-the-sea-for-fun-and-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-483012</link>
		<dc:creator>kranky kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15116#comment-483012</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Yeah, Chris, a small settlement of massive egos all working together in perfect harmony! What could possibly go wrong? :-)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

ROTFL. Exactly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Yeah, Chris, a small settlement of massive egos all working together in perfect harmony! What could possibly go wrong? :-)</p></blockquote>
<p>ROTFL. Exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/06/09/seasteading-libertarians-taking-to-the-sea-for-fun-and-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-483008</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15116#comment-483008</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Chris, a small settlement of massive egos all working together in perfect harmony! What could possibly go wrong? :-)

Could be fun to watch, though. From a distance. Like a too-full cage of fight-trained angry pit bulls.

As Nick notes, even a small poor government could take out or take over any micronation yet established. Like the Kingdom of Tonga took back Minerva.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Chris, a small settlement of massive egos all working together in perfect harmony! What could possibly go wrong? :-)</p>
<p>Could be fun to watch, though. From a distance. Like a too-full cage of fight-trained angry pit bulls.</p>
<p>As Nick notes, even a small poor government could take out or take over any micronation yet established. Like the Kingdom of Tonga took back Minerva.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Benjamin</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/06/09/seasteading-libertarians-taking-to-the-sea-for-fun-and-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-482999</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Benjamin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15116#comment-482999</guid>
		<description>Depending on how much luxury they want they could live on the ocean without much trouble. The technology to keep a ship at sea for months has been around for centuries. And if you&#039;ve ever seen Survivor you know that it is not that hard to get enough food when you&#039;re on a tropical island.

It helps that apparently a lot of them do things like computer programming that you can do from almost anywhere. They talk about businesses like prostitution, gambling, and legalized drugs making them money. But in the end their best bet is to keep doing what they&#039;re doing. And some less PC illegal activities. There&#039;s a lot of eating on a Blue Whale.

The only really new thing these guys are trying is creating a floating port to refit their boats every few years, keeping governments off their backs, and protecting that port from pirates. Given that the military has created floating ports before I have no doubt it should be possible for these guys to do the same given enough money.

As for governments they&#039;re in for trouble. The Republic of Rose Island was dynamited by the Italians in the late 60s. Sealand has some legal protection, because the only sovereign state that can mess with it is the UK and the British Courts have given it some legal protections. If these guys were smart they&#039;d actually buy the platform and use that as a base.

Pirates could be even more trouble. Especially if they legalize drugs and have large amounts of the hard stuff on hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depending on how much luxury they want they could live on the ocean without much trouble. The technology to keep a ship at sea for months has been around for centuries. And if you&#8217;ve ever seen Survivor you know that it is not that hard to get enough food when you&#8217;re on a tropical island.</p>
<p>It helps that apparently a lot of them do things like computer programming that you can do from almost anywhere. They talk about businesses like prostitution, gambling, and legalized drugs making them money. But in the end their best bet is to keep doing what they&#8217;re doing. And some less PC illegal activities. There&#8217;s a lot of eating on a Blue Whale.</p>
<p>The only really new thing these guys are trying is creating a floating port to refit their boats every few years, keeping governments off their backs, and protecting that port from pirates. Given that the military has created floating ports before I have no doubt it should be possible for these guys to do the same given enough money.</p>
<p>As for governments they&#8217;re in for trouble. The Republic of Rose Island was dynamited by the Italians in the late 60s. Sealand has some legal protection, because the only sovereign state that can mess with it is the UK and the British Courts have given it some legal protections. If these guys were smart they&#8217;d actually buy the platform and use that as a base.</p>
<p>Pirates could be even more trouble. Especially if they legalize drugs and have large amounts of the hard stuff on hand.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/06/09/seasteading-libertarians-taking-to-the-sea-for-fun-and-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-482980</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15116#comment-482980</guid>
		<description>I just read all the links that justin provided, and man. wow.  Basically they want no rules for people that live there.  But then they go on to talk about how they&#039;ll have missiles to defend the island and other stuff like that.  So who pays for that?  They all do, who controls the defense?  How is that any different than a central government?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read all the links that justin provided, and man. wow.  Basically they want no rules for people that live there.  But then they go on to talk about how they&#8217;ll have missiles to defend the island and other stuff like that.  So who pays for that?  They all do, who controls the defense?  How is that any different than a central government?</p>
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		<title>By: Tully</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/06/09/seasteading-libertarians-taking-to-the-sea-for-fun-and-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-482811</link>
		<dc:creator>Tully</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15116#comment-482811</guid>
		<description>Sure it&#039;s &quot;practical,&quot; in the sense it can be done, given deep enough pockets. 

But viable as an ongoing economic entity? Even remotely self-sufficient? I sincerely doubt it. Without some sound economic basis to keep the resources flowing, the best they could manage is a deep-pockets retreat. Like Galt&#039;s Gulch, but without the magical mystery power machines, or all the required skilled trades mysteriously being covered by all the elite who move there, or the food supply miraculously being sufficient.  

And yes, the history of micronations suggests that existing governments would be the downfall of any attempt at sovereignty. Not that pirates and scavengers wouldn&#039;t be a threat as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure it&#8217;s &#8220;practical,&#8221; in the sense it can be done, given deep enough pockets. </p>
<p>But viable as an ongoing economic entity? Even remotely self-sufficient? I sincerely doubt it. Without some sound economic basis to keep the resources flowing, the best they could manage is a deep-pockets retreat. Like Galt&#8217;s Gulch, but without the magical mystery power machines, or all the required skilled trades mysteriously being covered by all the elite who move there, or the food supply miraculously being sufficient.  </p>
<p>And yes, the history of micronations suggests that existing governments would be the downfall of any attempt at sovereignty. Not that pirates and scavengers wouldn&#8217;t be a threat as well.</p>
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		<title>By: michael reynolds</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/06/09/seasteading-libertarians-taking-to-the-sea-for-fun-and-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-482360</link>
		<dc:creator>michael reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15116#comment-482360</guid>
		<description>Answering the question &quot;Why don&#039;t Libertarians ever break 1%?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Answering the question &#8220;Why don&#8217;t Libertarians ever break 1%?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/06/09/seasteading-libertarians-taking-to-the-sea-for-fun-and-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-482175</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15116#comment-482175</guid>
		<description>Bwhaha, libertarians crack me up.  So who would police this sea-utopia? They wouldn&#039;t need police cause they all can protect themselves right?  Yeah that&#039;s a fantastic idea.  Who would protect them from pirates, other governments, things of that sort? They&#039;re going to have their own military?  There&#039;s a reason that societies were created in the first place, to provide things that an individual can&#039;t readily provide.

I would actually love for them to go through with this idea, because what would they have to do to survive? create their own government, that&#039;s what. Government with rules, which limit the freedoms of some for the benefit of the majority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bwhaha, libertarians crack me up.  So who would police this sea-utopia? They wouldn&#8217;t need police cause they all can protect themselves right?  Yeah that&#8217;s a fantastic idea.  Who would protect them from pirates, other governments, things of that sort? They&#8217;re going to have their own military?  There&#8217;s a reason that societies were created in the first place, to provide things that an individual can&#8217;t readily provide.</p>
<p>I would actually love for them to go through with this idea, because what would they have to do to survive? create their own government, that&#8217;s what. Government with rules, which limit the freedoms of some for the benefit of the majority.</p>
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		<title>By: kranky kritter</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/06/09/seasteading-libertarians-taking-to-the-sea-for-fun-and-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-482014</link>
		<dc:creator>kranky kritter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15116#comment-482014</guid>
		<description>I have more than a passing interest in dystopian literature and the accounts of attempted communes and movements led by charismatics. It leads me to presume that this is most likely little more than a childish fantasy.

For better or worse, things like nations and cultures and so on and so forth bind humans together &lt;i&gt;despite&lt;/i&gt; their differences. That&#039;s a big contributor to many of the most magnificent human accomplishments, ones which take time and planning and teamwork and building on others insights.

Seasteading sounds like a zillion nations of one, with everyone ready to take their ball and go away if they don&#039;t get their way. My sense of human nature doesn&#039;t make me optimistic on it. That&#039;s without even talking about pirates, matey.

It reminds me of that South Park episode where the college know-it-all hippies are saying &quot;and one person could bake bread and one person could grow vegetables and one person could....&quot;. And then Stan says &quot;yeah, that&#039;s called a town.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have more than a passing interest in dystopian literature and the accounts of attempted communes and movements led by charismatics. It leads me to presume that this is most likely little more than a childish fantasy.</p>
<p>For better or worse, things like nations and cultures and so on and so forth bind humans together <i>despite</i> their differences. That&#8217;s a big contributor to many of the most magnificent human accomplishments, ones which take time and planning and teamwork and building on others insights.</p>
<p>Seasteading sounds like a zillion nations of one, with everyone ready to take their ball and go away if they don&#8217;t get their way. My sense of human nature doesn&#8217;t make me optimistic on it. That&#8217;s without even talking about pirates, matey.</p>
<p>It reminds me of that South Park episode where the college know-it-all hippies are saying &#8220;and one person could bake bread and one person could grow vegetables and one person could&#8230;.&#8221;. And then Stan says &#8220;yeah, that&#8217;s called a town.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Agnostick</title>
		<link>http://donklephant.com/2009/06/09/seasteading-libertarians-taking-to-the-sea-for-fun-and-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-482013</link>
		<dc:creator>Agnostick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://donklephant.com/?p=15116#comment-482013</guid>
		<description>At some point... you&#039;ll have to leave your little utopia to buy something--this could be vegetable seeds, machine parts, antibiotics... something.

Wherever you go to make this purchase, you&#039;ll most likely have to pay sales tax. 

Game over!

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com

P.S.  Anybody else thinking of Deacon from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114898/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Waterworld?&quot;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At some point&#8230; you&#8217;ll have to leave your little utopia to buy something&#8211;this could be vegetable seeds, machine parts, antibiotics&#8230; something.</p>
<p>Wherever you go to make this purchase, you&#8217;ll most likely have to pay sales tax. </p>
<p>Game over!</p>
<p>Agnostick<br />
<a href="mailto:agnostick@excite.com">agnostick@excite.com</a></p>
<p>P.S.  Anybody else thinking of Deacon from <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114898/" >&#8220;Waterworld?&#8221;</a></p>
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